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Re: Hideous Destructor 4.7.1c

PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2022 11:17 pm
by ZikShadow
Yeah, I think with recasts being different now, I can see people making an effort to vary up their mags to maximize economy. 10 shots with the proper rounds followed by 20 of the recasts or something like that.
I think I was told a while back that the shots are actually random if you mix ammo types, so for me personally I'd probably just keep two mags with the different ammo loaded than mixing stuff if I can help it.

Re: Hideous Destructor 4.7.1c

PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2022 1:35 am
by Abba Zabba
Would recommend further modifying the new bullet crack sound, if you intend to keep something new and not revert. It's currently quite odd, particularly on the shotguns or SMG on full auto trigger pulls of 10+ rounds where you can pick up on the pattern. Sort of like an aggressive knock on a thin metal door with a loose pane of glass.

Bug: this is likely from the relatively new, compact rocket launcher addition, but the grenadier class in the class selection menu has no weapon sprite to represent the class.

Bug: can't comment on how the mob momentum works against glass windows (another Receiver mechanic funny enough,) but mobs simply touching any kind of medtexture break it as if they're made of dust. Even so, I don't think momentum would work against any midtexture that aren't supremely rusty iron bars.

Re: Hideous Destructor 4.7.1c

PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2022 3:48 pm
by Matt
Both bugs should be fixed now.

One thing about this current IRL war is that we're getting much better footage of real live firefights and sounds of supersonic bullets flying by. The new sound is much closer to what I've been hearing in those than the old one.

(In the past I've heard people describe it as like a metal ruler slapping on a desk and similar so sheets of metal and glass don't seem too far off...)

Re: Hideous Destructor 4.7.1c

PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2022 10:17 pm
by KynikossDragonn
You know, I wonder if anyone's ever tried taking a dummy head to a firing range and shooting suppressed weapons towards it at a distance (but obviously not hitting it) to record the supersonic cracks?

Re: Hideous Destructor 4.7.1c

PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2022 11:01 pm
by Abba Zabba
Matt wrote:Both bugs should be fixed now.


The midtexture crumble bug from mob collision was fixed (thanks), but the grenadier class icon is still blank.

Also, doorbuster and DERP tweaks seem to have largely broke the tool, as I had just one attempt place the DB and stick; all others on various surfaces, such as doors, switches, plain walls, met with it popping off. No clue why one attempt met the check requirements. DERP is the same situation.

Matt wrote:One thing about this current IRL war is that we're getting much better footage of real live firefights and sounds of supersonic bullets flying by. The new sound is much closer to what I've been hearing in those than the old one.


I've fired a fair amount of guns in my handful of years on this earth, and not once have I heard cracks up close sound like that, from a variety of guns. However, the sound isn't too far off from sonic cracks from about 1000 yards out, but still a bit off. But the sound that you can clearly hear point blank from your position as you fire, doesn't sound as sharp or 'simple' as it normally is. It's hard to describe, but the sound up close bears somewhat more resemblance to any sort of generic energy or laser weapon from various media, rather than an abstract, harsh knock on a screen door with a loose glass pane. The old sound is much closer to cracks you'd hear from your position or close by. When it's far out, the displaced air from when the bullet was still supersonic (I'm not sure of all of HD's ballistic specs) reaches you after the distant sonic boom, giving you this distorted sonic boom as it's really two separate sources of sound reaching you. Biggest offender being both shotguns, but the SMG makes this noticeable as well. But hearing this current sonic boom from way far out in a map, before the gunshot itself? It's not too far off the mark.

Re: Hideous Destructor 4.7.1c

PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2022 5:17 am
by ZikShadow
Tried checking out the new archie in the Main. Seems like it's just a pinch anemic at the moment, dying over a solid HEAT round, a few rounds from the Lib, or quite startingly, a single ZM mag. The old vile might not be the pinnacle of enemy design, but it does succeed in causing a unique fight/flight response ala' vanilla Doom archies in a mod where almost everything dies fairly quickly. Would recommend reimplementing atleast the lives system back.

Re: Hideous Destructor 4.7.1c

PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2022 5:21 am
by chien_andalusia
The new Necromancer from the developmental build is a very recent addition, and after trying it out in a few levels, I have to say, it's extremely underwhelming. The previous Necromancer was suspenseful and unique. His presence changed the fight as much as a vanilla Archvile does. He was perfect, or close to that. A few tweaks and I'm sure of it. Now, he's just like every other enemy, except so rare yet easily avoided and killed so quickly. Necromancer put the vanilla Archvile to shame; as for this experimental new one, I think all that made it a feared and unique enemy, worthy of its "most hated" title, is gone. Sure it's still in development, but depriving it of its curse and other abilities unseen in any other enemy, is not something that can be overlooked through tweaking shield and health amounts. I don't think I've a word to describe it but disappointing :(

I do understand multiplayer desyncs were at least partially the reason. IMO a toggle would be the best idea. A replacement from "Reduce Archvile spam" to "Easier Archviles" or "Multiplayer-friendly Archviles".

Re: Hideous Destructor 4.7.1c

PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2022 2:29 pm
by Eric_
They're really toothless as they are right now. I'm all for a new design, similar to the blursphere rework, the old archvile is a pile of jank and mostly an annoyance past the interesting theming and presentation. As of the current commits though they're slower and weaker than a vanilla Archvile in the mod that has the Brontornis.

My initial proposal would be to make them much faster before anything else. Vanilla archviles held the highest base movement speed, and I think it would be good to play that up. They have to stop to revive corpses, which gives you the opening you need to kill them. That would adequately distinguish them from healer imps, who move slowly and are susceptible to shrapnel. I'm thinking that the best part of fighting the old archviles was when they were surrounded with corpses so there was no waiting around for them to reappear, they'd just zip from corpse to corpse, trying to get a revive off as you play whack-a-vile. That was the tense and fun part of fighting them, and should be the part that continues into a new incarnation.

Re: Hideous Destructor 4.7.1c

PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2022 3:04 pm
by ZikShadow
Yeah, I suppose a brand new redesign could spiff up archie fights. Still though, would love to see it be feared again.

Re: Hideous Destructor 4.7.1c

PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2022 4:49 pm
by Melodica
You can very easily juke the new Necromancer's attack by walking behind it in close quarters currently, since it doesn't actively try to turn towards you while attacking. If it attacks while you're behind it it will also not make a full turn, making it's attempt at attacking harmless. Although this is mostly from testing in the range, so im not sure how much of a problem that would be in actual encounters.

Re: Hideous Destructor 4.7.1c

PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2022 11:07 pm
by Eric_
Loving them after the latest commit. Engaging to fight, unique in its mobility and means of attack, an even bigger wrench in your plans than the old design when you realize they can revive anything in a single touch, even if you put extra effort into maiming the corpse (but fire does work as a temporary deterrent). Thoroughly satisfied.

Re: Hideous Destructor 4.7.1c

PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2022 9:59 am
by Matt
Good to know! And thanks for the reminder of the stuff that makes the archvile actually interesting.

EDIT: I just realized that this basically does for the archvile what the babuin does for the pinky demon - smaller, harder to hit, more aggressive, additional movement ability, additional ability to painlock its target. I am more than okay with this.

Re: Hideous Destructor 4.7.1c

PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2022 10:52 am
by Eric_
I think their attack is maybe a little low in damage, but considering the possibility of fighting multiple archviles at once (or even fighting an archvile and an enemy that demands careful dodging, like a hell knight), it probably shouldn't be buffed. Which reminds me, will any change be made to the Reduce Archvile Spam option or the Plutonia spawnfilter?

Re: Hideous Destructor 4.7.1c

PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2022 11:54 am
by Abba Zabba
Haven't tested the new archvile too much, but so far, I find the revamp to largely be an across the board improvement. My main gripe with the old one was the sheer delay the archvile usually caused in combat if it wasn't surrounded with corpses, making the best general course of action for getting rid of them in a timely manner to be: throw down a HERP in the spot with the largest sweep, and simply leave and continue on. On the flipside, if there were corpses aplenty it became a frantic hellish ordeal if you weren't prepared, and it was almost always fun to fight.

The new aggression and speed are on point, to me. Shield usage is another plus, and the hellfire seems to grab even earlier now. Damage feels appropriate and definitely not too low considering it's one of the most chainable attacks in the game, with the stun and eventually fall to the ground causing yet more problems if you're dealing with more than the archvile. I've yet to find an issue, but I'll report anything, if it happens. Solid rework! (along with the new blursphere and blur zombies, forgot to mention how much of an improvement they were as well)

Re: Hideous Destructor 4.7.1c

PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2022 6:21 pm
by That0neBr075
Quick suggestion to perhaps add a CVAR that disables the tips that don't directly give the player good advice on how to play the mod. (Stuff like the EFT tip.)
While many of them are cool and/or humorous, I'd imagine there's many players who'd want actual gameplay tips, and as such don't want to scroll through dozens of tips that don't actually relate to the mod itself.