Hideous Destructor 4.7.0a

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Re: Hideous Destructor 4.5.0a

Postby Matt » Mon Jan 04, 2021 1:47 pm

Any monsters or just the babuins?

The thing about the skulls versus cards is that the cards totally break my suspension of disbelief in HD if there's no indication that they're flat somehow - and once that gets worked in they're way too easy to miss whereas the skulls are just smaller.
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Re: Hideous Destructor 4.5.0a

Postby Abba Zabba » Mon Jan 04, 2021 2:32 pm

Sometimes it's babuins due to their behavior, but a fair amount of the time it's zombies, and I've also noticed hell knights a few times get stuck the same way, perhaps because they're so fast compared to their larger red cousins? I also tested with the fist's grab mechanic, which caused zombies to fall off ledges normally when they aren't in pain (either by me pushing them off or when you and the monster stumble around a bit from a grab break (is that what that is? I'm guessing so, as mancubi break grabs quite easily, along with IEDs funny enough) but when they're in pain over a ledge, they fall straight down as if they have a radius of 1 or something.

I understand the point of flat key cards, but the skulls could be default large to match since they're practically idols that grant key functions. The real question is how to add a little style to keycards to make them stand out like translucent skulls.
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Re: Hideous Destructor 4.5.0a

Postby Caligari87 » Mon Jan 04, 2021 4:17 pm

Skullkeys float upright, keycards laid flat, which is/was the a major difference in visibility.

Since skullkeys are A) presumed to have a roughly 3D shape and B) magical artifacts (like soulspheres), floating upright and whatnot makes sense in the game universe. If keycards are, diegetically, access key cards, they don't have those same properties. They're tiny cards that lay flat on the ground, which is not nearly so easy to find as a glowing demonic skull. Treating the keys as something more akin to a computer terminal allows for a more visible diegetic presentation.

Anyway, that's the logic as reported to me and to my knowledge there haven't been any complaints about not being able to find skulls, like there were about the keys. Like I said, I'll look into making a mutator that adjusts their appearance.

8-)
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Re: Hideous Destructor 4.5.0a

Postby Abba Zabba » Mon Jan 04, 2021 5:08 pm

Not sure I follow on this flatness design topic. Keycards have no forced billboard so the flatness to me was always abstracted into the paper thin thickness of sprites with a Y-axis billboard, along with the card being upright. The way you talk about them sounds like the skulls have a forced XY-axis billboard. The levitation concept is it's own thing since that's just sprite offsets which vanilla doom treats the same for cards and skulls, about 4-5 pixels off the ground. Spheres laid flat on the ground axis wise still hover with that ZDoom effect. But that's another topic.
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Re: Hideous Destructor 4.5.0a

Postby Matt » Mon Jan 04, 2021 5:11 pm

I play with XY-axis by default, which includes the skulls - the only reason I don't force that for the skulls and everything else is just to respect user choice.

Anyway, I have no intention whatsoever of changing this now.


I have no idea how this falling stuck in walls stuff works though, would it be possible to post a video or at least before/after screenshots?
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Re: Hideous Destructor 4.5.0a

Postby Abba Zabba » Mon Jan 04, 2021 7:30 pm

Sure, I'll see about capturing something tomorrow and add it here. Definitely seems linked to pain.
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Re: Hideous Destructor 4.5.0a

Postby Matt » Mon Jan 04, 2021 8:48 pm

Abba Zabba wrote:Definitely seems linked to pain.
HD allows monsters to fall off ledges while they're in pain, so I'm wondering if that flag is somehow being set while they're in midair and the mechanism by which the dropoff is prevented is sticking them to the ledge...

EDIT: It no longer does that, and hasn't in a long time.

Is it only the fist and grabbing?
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Re: Hideous Destructor 4.5.0a

Postby Abba Zabba » Tue Jan 05, 2021 10:03 am

No, I've noticed it during normal play with monsters close to ledges, and in such cases, it seems like it's the corpses that slide toward the edge, then fall down in this way, becoming stuck in the wall, only to later be revived by some means and be absolutely stuck. However, I have noticed hell knights survive almost always due to their toughness, and become stuck in the wall after they fall from a ledge, but this was from infighting and not me. The fist's grab was just a quick test I did about five times to see if I could replicate it with minimal damage to the monster (manhandling is the gentlest option I'm guessing), and when I tried with zombies of all kinds (due to their light weight and small radius allowing a bit more precise testing,) they all consistently fell straight down when they entered their pain state along with their center hitbox hanging over the edge, as if their map collision radius became 0 or 1 during pain. It's worth noting that I tested with 90 degree angle outward point (like the corner of a crate for example) when testing this, pushing them to the edge point. I haven't tried this with flat faces of differing map orientation.

Edit: It's the same for flat, straight edges. Another thing I noticed is that this could also happen when spawning in a monster, even from a great height. If their center is placed slightly over the edge when spawned in, they'll fall, but if placed on top of a surface and pushed over the edge without pain, their collision box works like normal.
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Re: Hideous Destructor 4.5.0a

Postby Matt » Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:33 am

I'm starting to think this is an engine collision quirk that HD just happens to be bad at avoiding.

I've added a thing to the "if stuck, call A_Wander" code that makes the affected monster temporarily floating so it can still move even if stuck in midair. Maybe this could at least mitigate the end results.
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Re: Hideous Destructor 4.5.0a

Postby Abba Zabba » Tue Jan 05, 2021 5:37 pm

That change seems to work a fair deal better, along with the spawning of monsters on edges no longer causing them to fall down and get stuck if their center was over the edge. Seems a bit harder to cause now, at least with the grab mechanic. Haven't had any monsters stuck through normal play yet.

Edit: had another hell knight fall down and get stuck in normal play, though it does seem rarer.

Edit 2: worse than I thought, monsters by themselves can fall down holes from their navigation alone. I'll try an older revision to compare, but in the instance I found, it was a 10 doom unit or so wide square hole that the monsters fell through. Not sure if the distance of the gap mattered.

Edit 3: is this a GZ bug? I've been encountering it more and more to the point where I definitely think I'd have noticed it months ago. Using GZDoom 4.5.0. I notice now that this bug seems to occur with any drop in height, with the smallest that I noticed being a stormtrooper getting caught on a coffin lid which is just a mere 2 texture pixels of a height drop from the frame of the coffin. Any map with even basic detail through map geometry, such as desks, little crates, or the aforementioned coffins, suffers greatly from this bug.
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Re: Hideous Destructor 4.5.0a

Postby Matt » Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:43 am

I've never run into or heard of this problem anywhere else with GZ 4.5 or HD 4.5.0a. :/

Anyway, I'm just here to post a warning that HD's code cannot and was never actually able to be licenced under the 3-clause BSD licence, since it has to follow the GZDoom source code. I've updated the git accordingly; this update may result in further consequential changes to the licence and possibly even distribution method.
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Re: Hideous Destructor 4.5.0a

Postby Abba Zabba » Wed Jan 20, 2021 5:44 am

My mistake for forgetting to add that video example I recorded. I'll capture something quick and add it here tomorrow. If I have patience enough later on, I'll try and show an example of a naturally wandering monster falling off a ledge. I'll tack it onto this post. And to clarify, this is still with GZDoom 4.5.0. and the latest Hideous Destructor build.

Edit: sorry for the long wait, and the poor example, but here's something at least. Waiting around for alerted, roaming zombies and imps to fall down on their own from their 'slide' momentum from practice aiming or pivoting takes a decent bit of time. Especially for imps. Skip to 1:08. (this is the latest dev build of HD and running on GZDoom 4.5.0.)

Spoiler: zombieman falls down, thus I frown


Spoiler: Blood Bags
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Re: Hideous Destructor 4.5.0a

Postby Max Dickings » Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:16 pm

Hello! Before I pose an issue I'm facing I want to say I am loving this mod so far. It really isn't that complicated or ball-busting as a lot of first impressions have mislead me to believe. Yeah, I can imagine it'd be super hard if I didn't read the manual first? I mean a doom mod that allows me to manually control the pump on the shotgun and load a shell into an open breach yes please :wub:

Anyway I've been going hog-wild with sub-mods and it appears I can't get nashgore to fully work with this mod and I can't seem to pinpoint why. Nashgore appears to be working in every capacity except in actual impact splatters. It only seems to work 20% of the time, the remainder of the time it's normal HD impacts. Yes I'm using bludtype.txt, in fact I tried loading it last as a .txt, a wad, and a pk3. I'm using gzdoom 4.5.0 and I've tried to get it to work with just HD/nashgore/bludtype - same result. And strangely I seem to be the only one with this issue judging by google. The only piece of advice I came upon was someone saying to load nash first, attempted but no change in result. Judging by the lack of similar issues I assume I have an option enabled somewhere deep in the settings causing this but I can't seem to locate the culprit.

Also if this post is better suited to go in the nashgore thread I'll do so - I figured I'd post here first since I tested nashgore with other mods/TC's and I don't seem to have this issue.


Truly amazing work anyway! :D
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Re: Hideous Destructor 4.5.0a

Postby Matt » Wed Feb 03, 2021 1:15 am

HD is not compatible with Nashgore.
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Re: Hideous Destructor 4.5.0a

Postby Abba Zabba » Fri Feb 12, 2021 3:00 am

Has there been any finding on the fall down, noclip collision bug?

On another note, strongly recommend for DERPs to not engage targets after running out of ammo; it makes retrieval a pain when you try to command it to go to a destination. Like a disobedient, pissed off dog, it simply wants to do its own thing. Maybe an automatic switch to ambush mode? Or a special argument where turret and patrol mode ignore target engagement on empty.
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