Hideous Destructor 4.4.2c

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Postby Matt » Sat Mar 31, 2007 3:22 am

Sadly, the whole thing right now is riddled with bits of DECORATE that only work with the SVN. I don't even remember what those bits are off the top of my head... that said, I've just converted a crapload of stuff (namely everything involving pain flashes and health) to ACS, all of which I'm using is 2.1.7-compatible.

Anyway, I've added the abovementioned movement system. I suspect many people will hate it, hell it took me some considerable getting used to. Bind a key to +hd_sprint to take advantage of the new superfast (80% of the original Doomguy's speed!) run.
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Postby Matt » Sat Mar 31, 2007 3:40 am

Actually, the differences were not nearly as obscure as I thought...

A_SetGravity must be replaced with A_LowGravity:
DCEFFECT
DCIMP
DCARCHV
DCHEAVY
DCBARREL

Player.AttackZOffset must removed:
DCPLAYER

Custom weapon states must be replaced with those awful, awful A_Jump offsets:
DCRIFLE
DCSHTGNS
DCHEAVY
DCCELL

I don't even want to think about that last one right now. X(
EDIT2: Oh good, it seems that I wouldn't have to replace all custom states, just the pointer arguments in the A_Jumps...

EDIT: Note that this all assumes that we're talking about the unofficial GZDoom buld that fixes the A_Explode bug. Because without that this thing's damn near unplayable...
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Postby Matt » Sat Mar 31, 2007 4:02 pm

Done!

New downloads available on the page. Also do re-download the normal version because it fixes a few bugs.
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Postby The NUtcracker » Sat Mar 31, 2007 5:02 pm

Suggestion: Base the player speed off how strong of the weapons they start with.
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Postby hitmanx » Sat Mar 31, 2007 10:32 pm

This mod still won't work for me, i have the latest zdoom and the lates svn.. :(

err. No i didn't, never mind :oops:

I'm gonna go play!
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Postby Matt » Sat Mar 31, 2007 10:37 pm

...I just noticed that only the Assault class is able to sprint. Fixed, will upload later.

@Nutcracker: I'm going to have to say no to that suggestion for the reasons below. Before that, though, might I ask which weapons you think are the strongest?

(btw, thanks for prompting me to even think about most of this stuff... I've been ignoring the issue of balance between some of the weapons, especially the plasma rifle, for a while now.)

1) As far as I can tell the Assault loadout is the best and SAW the worst - that is, before I added in the master copy a class that started off with the plasma rifle. However, next to the SSG the rifle is the lightest weapon. So it's going to be a bit counterintuitive that having the big heavy machine guns lets you run the fastest..

2) Starting weapon means very little after one zombie-infested map. After that just about everyone will have a rifle and shotgun, possibly chaingun, possibly grenade launcher. Which would mean I have to have a script that changes the base speed depending on what the player has or has out, which is going to be a nightmare to reconcile with the sprinting and medikit-using scripts.

3) Things are balanced quite differently in deathmatch. I'm not sure how exactly, since I've only tested with bots, but what might be a liability in coop becomes almost irrelevant in DM, and vice versa. In a small, dark map, the assassin is nearly unstoppable.

4) I'm not all that interested in balancing the starting classes per se beyond not letting anyone start with the BFG.* They're just options, and if you're randomly selecting what to start with things are inevitably weighted in favour of the class that starts out with the most versatile (if not necessarily hardest-hitting) weapon.

*Now that I consider it I might add two more classes for the energy weapons...

That all said, I'm welcome to any suggestions as to balancing the weapons themselves. Here's what I've noticed so far:

SSG v. SG: The shotgun is better overall, but in a crowded situation that requires extremely quick reactions and a crap hit is better than a miss followed by a good hit, the SSG can be invaluable. The bit in Map02 where you have to jump into a hole, for instance.

Chaingun v. Rifle: Far from being the SAW I'd imagined, the chaingun actually works best as an assassination weapon: find the meatiest enemy, close in with the chaingun, they can't react until you're out of ammo and by then they're probably dead. Otherwise, it's also a room-clearing gun. The rifle is rather poor at both of these, but can do moderate amounts of damage to specific targets that can be switched quickly. Ironically, this means that the rifle provides far better distraction (you can't really do cover fire against monsters) against groups of enemies while your teammates close in for the kill. So the chaingun basically acts more like an SMG - a conclusion I'd wanted to avoid, since it would force me to assign different ammo types to the two weapons. That said, in gameplay terms it's not that bad at all. I'll have to think about what to do with this one.

Rifle v. SG: The shotgun is better in close quarters - assuming that you hit on the first shot. The rifle is more n00b friendly but you tend to waste more ammo. At long range, the SG's spread makes it almost worthless. At medium range, both weapons seem to balance out. The shotgun can take out a babuin or lost soul with one shot, but it that shot isn't enough to kill the rifle can at least hold the target back.

Chaingun v. Plasma: Plasma's advantage is that it basically does a noticeable bit more damage per shot as the rifle but has minimal recoil and is pinpoint accurate. That said, it blocks the player's view and because of its projectile gives the other guy a moment to shoot back before you hit them. The rocket/grenade/BFG has the same problem, but since you usually only fire one projectile at a time you are forced to remain exposed for a far shorter period. Result: I can barely kill the most basic opponents without taking substantial damage - the exact opposite of the chaingun. With, unfortunately, no redeeming value given the rarity of cells - it does do more damage, but given how likely you are to miss the rifle still comes out better.

Rocket v. Grenade: Both are effective but Grenadier not a good way to start a solo game. The grenade fire is clearly superior (faster projectile means quicker exit and sooner threat neutralization), but the rockets aren't that bad if you need a straight shot. I'd originally thought that it would be the other way around, and made the rocket explosion slightly weaker; I'm going to change them to do equal explosion damage, and leave the rocket's superior impact damage as it's always been. Still wishing I could create a Gyrojet effect though...

BFG v. Everything the hell else: Assuming you always have a break to reload, you're going to crush everything in sight - until the ammo runs out. I'm happy with this. Now to make the plasma rifle at least somewhat comparable in non-suckitude...
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Postby Matt » Mon Apr 02, 2007 12:09 am

Update:

Chaingun de-suckified.

Double shotgun and BFG now more in line with the grenade launcher in reloading.

As for the rocket v. grenade, I neglected to consider the moment it takes to get the correct angle before shooting: the rocket wins out, since you have a faster reaction time; the rifle's grenade launcher wins over the rocket launcher's altfire, since you have a close-quarters weapon immediately available if the grenade doesn't take out the enemy. Which makes sense, since the altfire is really designed to be a perk more than a vital function.

EDIT: Coming up: More powerful, less spammy plasma rifle.
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Postby Matt » Mon Apr 02, 2007 11:03 pm

Update:

Plasma rifle de-suckified. Now it's basically a rapid-fire micro-rocket-launcher - good for some constant suppression/distraction fire at medium range, not a very good pinpoint killing weapon per se but good for clearing rooms. Good against large groups of imps where you don't have time to reload but it's not vital that you hit immediately.
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Postby Captain Ventris » Tue Apr 03, 2007 6:51 am

I'm going to have my birthday party on Saturday, and Coop on this would be great!
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Postby Matt » Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:02 am

Let me know how it goes!

I'll refrain from making any non-bugfix updates until then.
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Postby Captain Ventris » Tue Apr 03, 2007 4:04 pm

Vaecrius wrote:Let me know how it goes!

I'll refrain from making any non-bugfix updates until then.


Oh, wow. Thanks!
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Postby Matt » Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:11 am

Bah, it's always something...

Rocket launcher fixed.
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Postby Ryan Cordell » Thu Apr 05, 2007 7:22 am

:lol:
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Postby Matt » Sun Apr 08, 2007 5:39 pm

So how'd it go? Any glaring bugs or assorted weirdness?

Anyway, new update with a few gameplay changes.
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Postby Captain Ventris » Sun Apr 08, 2007 7:04 pm

Vaecrius wrote:So how'd it go? Any glaring bugs or assorted weirdness?

Anyway, new update with a few gameplay changes.


Umm, well, we actually only ended up playing Space Munchkin and Star Wars Starship Battles for hours, sooo...
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