Hideous Destructor 4.7.0a

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Re: Hideous Destructor [last update 28 may 2008]

Postby Da Spadger » Fri May 30, 2008 8:39 am

Vaecrius wrote:
Unknown_Assassin wrote:No, it happens with all weapons. Everytime you move back and forth, even at 100% health, you still look up for every movement.
Sorry, I just don't see it. A friend I tried this mod with complained that the movement was "jumpy" somehow and this might be related. Could you post a video or something so I can see what you're referring to?


I've noticed that you start looking up more and more when you have stepped down from something. It doesn't stop until you stop walking completely.
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Re: Hideous Destructor [last update 28 may 2008]

Postby Matt » Fri May 30, 2008 9:46 am

Da Spadger wrote:I've noticed that you start looking up more and more when you have stepped down from something. It doesn't stop until you stop walking completely.
Found the problem. I'm using the same script for muzzle climb as for lingering pain jittering - the muzzle climb should be worse if you're trying to shoot from midair, but the way I've set that up it ends up affecting everything.

Bug is now fixed. Download link
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Re: Hideous Destructor [last update 28 may 2008]

Postby Da Spadger » Fri May 30, 2008 11:28 am

Script error, "dcfunctn" line 85:
"nointeraction" is an unknown flag
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Re: Hideous Destructor [last update 28 may 2008]

Postby Davidos » Fri May 30, 2008 4:33 pm

I decided to come back to these forums to boost my post count up to an amazing count of: TWO!!!

Vaecrius wrote:Oh hey, there is a newer version of GZDoom that fixes the fmodex thing. ::downloads::

...yeah, I have no idea what causes that crash - HD's had crash problems with GZDoom for ages to varying degrees of severity. Doesn't seem to happen all the time, though, and ZDoom works just fine.


Zdoom and GZdoom both crash for me at random moments, most likely when dieing in singleplayer mode. it's as if a code is calling respawn or scoreboard or something, because multiplayer works flawlessly.
Also the random crash now and then which I can hardly explain...

Vaecrius wrote:Do the zombies really seem that fast? They should be slower than the vanilla Doom 2 archvile (which admittedly is pretty damn fast), but given I can't make anything take cover or pin a target with suppressive fire there's not much else I could do to make them harder to kill. (I'd really rather avoid giving them more hitpoints, which just makes it aggravating when you eventually do get a good shot at someone.)


No biggy there, just harder to pinpoint-potshot or flank them if they keep running in circles like a frickin trike

Vaecrius wrote:I'll give a thought to adding a sidearm. I've avoided it on purpose thus far because I felt that the rifle was enough... but after getting hosed a few times for starting on a zombieless map with a big weapon and no CQB capability I'm starting to reconsider.


My suggestion would be an added quick-draw to the sidearm. You do know the tactical rifle-to-sidearm switch right? You lower your weapon in one hand, take out the sidearm and fire quickly in a systematic way which allows more speed... youtube it.
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Re: Hideous Destructor [last update 28 may 2008]

Postby Matt » Fri May 30, 2008 6:54 pm

@Spadger: That actor flag is new - you'll need at least r908.

The crash seems to happen randomly when the screen is "busy" and I'm firing.

I have not been able to replicate the crash if I get rid of SBARINFO, so I'm looking there now to see what might be wrong.
EDIT: I have not gotten a crash even with SBARINFO with the mugshot commented out.


EDIT3: This.
I've just uploaded a temporary version without the mugshot. Same URL as above.


EDITwhatever: Anyway, with that out of the way, to address other issues...

I've received a PM about the recoil being too unforgiving and preventing movement while firing. All I can say is, yes it is meant to be that hard to shoot on the run. :) HD is still a lot more forgiving than, say, the Infiltration UT mod which was one of my main influences for the weapon system.

Hopefully with this workaround to the crash co-op would be possible and you won't need to provide your own cover fire every time. :D

As for the sidearm switch... uh, URL plzkthx?
Last edited by Matt on Fri May 30, 2008 8:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hideous Destructor [last update 30 May 2008]

Postby enigma.rain » Fri May 30, 2008 7:57 pm

GZDoom crashes after dying in single player and every now and again when I hit the manual reload (after screwing around with the hd_autoreloadon stuff).

As for the monster speed, it works well on custom maps designed specifically for HD. Official maps and even 3rd party maps focus mostly on run and gun. As long as you don't stop moving, you're usually okay, but obviously that approach doesn't work for HD. But in a map with sufficient cover items (I've made a test map with a sorta warehouse theme-lots of different sized crates for didn't strategies) the monsters don't have a straight line, so it slows them down enough to give you a fighting chance. The map is nothing special, but if anybody has a suggestion for a scenario I can probably make a hub type thing that lead to different testing rooms for certain situations. I'm new to map making, but still, I have the chops for something like this.

I do also want to compliment you on the weapons. Although the majority of the sprites are from the original game, all the weapons feel completely new, and they feel substantial when used. Something about a massive green ball of death shooting out your hands with no recoil just kills the realism, but your mod's weapons are great.

I also have to say that your alterations to the monsters are fantastic. The new attacks are well done, and the new behaviors, when implemented in a custom map, really add something to the gameplay. Other than the little bugs, the gameplay itself is superb. Keep it up.

*EDIT* Oh, and I know it probably goes against your "no ACS" rule, but would it be possible to throw in a sniper rifle with a real zoom, like modern FPS. I've seen shoddy attempts, where the screen zooms but the hud and the weapon sprite don't change at all, and it ruined any sort of immersion and was just annoying. Anyway, would it be possible to impliment a sort aiming mode ala Call of Duty for the weapons?
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Re: Hideous Destructor [last update 30 May 2008]

Postby Matt » Fri May 30, 2008 9:07 pm

Thanks for the comments! I've always been meaning to do a custom map for HD since the beginning, but I have a nasty habit of getting sidetracked with detailing out one single room and then burning out forgetting the whole point of the exercise. So any help in this department is greatly appreciated. ^^;

"No ACS" rule? Uh... crap, where does it still say that? ^^; Because that is by no means the case now. I read somewhere about some new zooming feature, so I might look into that sometime. No guarantees though. (In the meantime I just assume everyone who wants to zoom just has their own custom fov alias.)

EDIT: Brainstorming some ideas for maps:

- Farmhouse raid in the middle of nowhere in some blasted, rocky country. Fight your way in, grab the McGuffin, fight your way out when reinforcements arrive, get to the rendezvous point. I'd imagine a nice symmetry where all the environmental advantages or disadvantages you find going in are reversed going out.

- Drug bust. Warehouse full of ex-military gangsters, demonic allies, and crazed, "zombified" addicts... and crate after crate of stolen UAC supplies implicitly filled with cocaine in secret compartments.

- Valley of Death. Get through a pass full of little sniper spots, some exploitable, some unused, others occupied - keep the player guessing! Add some optional secret areas, but instead of every one storing some special item make some of them connect the different sniper spots to make the cyberdemons at the end of the engagement much easier.
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Re: Hideous Destructor [last update 30 May 2008]

Postby Davidos » Sat May 31, 2008 1:37 am

Not as unforgiving as infiltration huh...?

Weird... I remember my score being One hundred and thirty two after atleast two hours of gameplay with the MP5 or P90 just running and spraying whilst stealing weaponry from others.

Hmm, it might just be me but I stil lthink the recoil screws up movement.

Buuuut, whatever. Thanks for the hotfix.

EDIT:

Here's the way to do it while Hunting
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzycJ3ySy_Q

Tiger Valley: Transition training drill
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0w1NLZLD1TY

I suggest finding more of the videos from Tiger valley, it might give you info.


EDIT2:

Yeah, I died alright. And it didn't crash
But now what annoys me is the fact you can't walk properly when you've been shot.
Okay so I get that you sway and shit but you don't suddenly walk back the same way you did whilst sprinting forward, that's BS.

And then there's that annoying fact that you can't cook a grenade properly, because you'll throw it so hard it'll come back at you anyway, and half powered throws often end up doing the same thing in CQC circumstances
I suggest moving the cooked grenade to switch throwing speeds by pressing the Reload function or something, I don't know.

Edit3:

I just made 4 videos over 2 levels
I had to pause thrice on map02 so .... yeah...

I tried to use tactical advantages instead of run and gun to display the more tactical side to this deadly mod.
Unlike many 'idiots' that just run into a room and fire I try to frag and clear, moves such as that sustains one's life.
But whatever,I got lazy at the end and decided to get two shotguns to the face (Skill 4) and survive for some reason.
Last edited by Davidos on Sat May 31, 2008 3:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hideous Destructor [last update 30 May 2008]

Postby Matt » Sat May 31, 2008 2:48 am

Davidos wrote:Not as unforgiving as infiltration huh...?

Weird... I remember my score being One hundred and thirty two after atleast two hours of gameplay with the MP5 or P90 just running and spraying whilst stealing weaponry from others.
Heh, forgot about non-RealAim 2.86. :D Suppressed P90 pwned everything in that version...

I was mostly thinking about 2.9 though, which while not going to the same extremes as RA is still less than friendly to run-and-gun. (That said, I'll still have to take back my original statement, now that I remember the whole thing about being able to see where your gun is moving instead of the random inaccuracy in HD.)

Anyway, quick-action pistol. I think the easiest way to implement this would be to have the player drop the heavier weapons.

Typing up a sequence of actions so I remember:

- Create a new QA key as well as adding the pistol to slot 2.
- Using slot 2 would select the pistol like a normal weapon. Using the QA button, however, we must:

- Find the current weapon. If it is a hand grenade, pistol, or fist, switch to the QA weapon normally and ignore the following.
- Clear any and all "memory" inventory flags used to track how much ammo is being transferred during a reload, and spawn the equivalent ammo pickups in front of the player.
- End all reload sequences at some natural-seeming point.
- If the current weapon is a rifle, SSG, shotgun, plasma, or rocket, switch to the QA weapon at this point.
- If the current weapon is anything not mentioned above, lose the ammo in the mag, lose the weapon, spawn the equivalent weapon pickup in front of the player, and switch to the QA weapon.

- Check whether the pistol is loaded. If it is loaded, the QA weapon being switched to will be the pistol. Otherwise, the QA weapon being switched to will be the fist.
- If the current weapon and QA weapon are the same, do not switch. (IIRC an attempt to "switch" to the same weapon is ignored, but I'll add this in the post to remind myself just in case.)


EDIT: The grenades were set up the way they were to make sure they were idiot-proof - there's no way to pull the pin and just leave the grenade there without throwing it or making some conscious effort to retain it. But now that I think about it, this should work as well:

- Primary fire throws as it does now, pulling the pin if it has not been pulled already.
- Secondary fire must be mashed four times in rapid succession to pull the pin. A "Frag Out!" warning will then be given.
- Once the pin is pulled by secondary fire, hitting reload would put the pin back in. Hitting primary fire would start the throwing sequence minus the pin-pulling since that's been done already. Hitting altfire one more time would drop the spoon and begin cooking off.
- If you switch weapons while the pin is pulled, you put the pin back in first - even if you QA. If you switch weapons while cooking off, you will throw the grenade at medium power first - again, even if you QA.
- While the grenade is cooking off, a countdown will display. (I almost wish we could have built-in one-time interactive help functions...) Once it hits zero, there will be a very brief one-second period before the grenade spawns and explodes.
Last edited by Matt on Sat May 31, 2008 3:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hideous Destructor [last update 30 May 2008]

Postby Davidos » Sat May 31, 2008 3:30 am

I 'WAS' talking about 2.9 XD

Seriously, that game was so simple I was like a damn one man army on my p2 laptop ^.^;

-O T-
I just got 5 phone calls in a row, I forgot it was a wireless phone and I could have simply put it on my desk here -.-
Instead of running down like a jackass *Facepalms*
- /O T -


Anyway, about the QA pistol, I suggest making the weapon you start with <but not the BFG or Chaingun/Plasma Rifle> Attatched with a cord of some sort so the Quick draw is faster and the weapon isn't lost but simply hung down (like on the video)
It should however act like a panic weapon, AkA Drop, Draw, Point, Fire, and it shouldn't have major consequences in a massive CQC firefight, like not being able to regain the weapon quick enough because you are pinned by more than three 'monsters'

Oh and, another annoying fact:
The game gives you a recoil twitch when you aim and press fire. The weapon already 'recoils' without having fired, this should be impossible, mostly the first aimed shot whilst 'jogging' should be accurate enough.

I'm also working on a Cam Lean script but unfortunatly it doesn't work too good on Doom... I suppose I shouldn't use Half-life scripts >.>;;;


Edit 2
MASSIVE SUGGESTION

Iron sights!

How about that reducing recoil and increasing accuracy <and damage>
Look at ww's Diaz's Mauser rifle! That worked perfectly!
o.o;
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Re: Hideous Destructor [last update 30 May 2008]

Postby Matt » Sat May 31, 2008 4:32 am

....really now.

Alright, I'll come clean: the entirety of my experience with 2.9 is two botmatches. After the third food break I took between frames, I uninstalled it as being simply unplayable. I've assumed from what little I saw that most of the RA changes were incorporated. EDIT: Now that I think about it, I did try running and gunning a few times, but a crappy slide show of sky and walls a few seconds before death tended to be the result.

I have mixed feelings about the first-shot-on-the-run jitter. On the one hand, even I can see that it's really cheesy and annoying when you know you should've made that instant reflex shot - one that, more aggravatingly, you might have been able to make yourself running at that speed with a real gun.

On the other, it really helps level the playing field between player and monsters, since the latter don't even have the option to fire on the move. That tension and element of risk just isn't there when you could always move in, land a hit while they're targeting you, then move back behind cover during the time it takes for them to go through their pain state. Until I can address these issues while still allowing a half-decent shot on the move, I'm going to keep the jitter.

As for the quick-action pistol... despite my previous post, on further consideration I'm going to have to think about this again, with a bias towards the no side. The super shotgun already pretty much fills the niche for a quick-draw, double-tap weapon, and the rifle that for a rapid-fire PDW. A pistol would just fill either role crappily - which was what motivated me to replace it with a rifle to begin with. And if we're retaining the weapons during the switch, then we're talking about, at best, single-digit-tic speed differences between lowering the BFG for a pistol and lowering the BFG for the SSG.

Moreover, I'd need a seventh ammo slot, which would just look fugly the way the hud's set up now.
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Re: Hideous Destructor [last update 30 May 2008]

Postby Davidos » Sat May 31, 2008 7:35 am

Vaecrius wrote:I have mixed feelings about the first-shot-on-the-run jitter. On the one hand, even I can see that it's really cheesy and annoying when you know you should've made that instant reflex shot - one that, more aggravatingly, you might have been able to make yourself running at that speed with a real gun.


Err... Well, the worst part would be that the 'usually' ejected grenade (if it doesnt fall on your feet when you fire it -.-) from the rifle ALSO has this. Whilst it should have a decent ammount of recoil, it's annoying that, when you move just a LITTLE <walking>, you press right click and suddenly the screen turns into the wall, making a big bad ass boom which will NOT make you happy.

On the other, it really helps level the playing field between player and monsters, since the latter don't even have the option to fire on the move. That tension and element of risk just isn't there when you could always move in, land a hit while they're targeting you, then move back behind cover during the time it takes for them to go through their pain state. Until I can address these issues while still allowing a half-decent shot on the move, I'm going to keep the jitter.


They can dodge and dive, they did that lots of times for me, that should compensate enough.
That, and it's just really, seriously, (Borging) retarded that the aim shakes JUST when you are trying to land that sniper shot whilst moving AN INCH, and I seriously mean, AN INCH, whilst WALKING or CROUCHING AND WALKING... making you shoot the bullet 30 feet OFF of the target.
and THAT, ladies and gentlemen, is pissing me off big time right now.


As for the pistol, it could be a panic key slot which simply makes you lower the weapon just as fast as it normally does, but the pistol raises in just a few mili seconds and fires on it's own. This could have a huge benefit than reloading a shotgun or a rifle before you can fire, as I noticed is really annoying if you can't switch weapons fast enough and end up dead in a corner because you were trying to get to the nearest cover but there WASNT ANY, nor a way to CLOSE A DOOR.


Moreover, I'd need a seventh ammo slot, which would just look fugly the way the hud's set up now.

Negative, the pistol can just hold 15 rounds as it is a panic weapon, thus only making it show it's ammo when it's drawn and it should seriously only be used in panic situations.
http://www.gunshopfinder.com/beretta/3032_tomcat.jpg
The beretta tomcat is often displayed as a quick-draw panic weapon in both movies and games <Such as: The Opera>

Ofcourse you could slap in a few silenced weapons such as the MK23 with silencer or a Glock-18 with Auto mode and High-cap mag.


EDIT 2:
I'm stil lworking on the iron sights and so far all I got was slowdown and zoom...

Second suggestion
Weight limit, so your teammates can carry weapons without you hogging all of them leaving them with their startup set.
Dropping weaponry and ammo for allies
Firing modes, probably using inventory just like with reloading.

Bullet casing sounds...
enemy reloading, with sounds...

Meh, that's all I can think of. If you want I can find help for the mod. If not, then just ignore me.

EDIT 3:
Bug, The mutated barrels are revivable by impies >.>;;;


Edit 4:

If that up there sounds like I'm pissed off, I kinda am, but not cause of the game so hmmkay.


Edit 5:
Wow, I didn't know a server could get empty that quickly.
People started bitching about the recoil and now nobody's joining anymore >.>; I suppose they went back to INF mod...
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Re: Hideous Destructor [last update 30 May 2008]

Postby Matt » Sat May 31, 2008 3:31 pm

See, if I were to implement some of those suggestions, I would end up with very little that hasn't been done better by either GZDA, Diaz, or both.

Enemy reloading looks nice, but... why? Can you really seriously count the shots an enemy makes? Someone could, in theory, reload while someone else is firing, or partially reload, or pick up a nearby weapon, or any other thing that will screw up your count.

I'll look into casing sounds for the shotgun eventually, but right now any eye and ear candy that doesn't serve a functional purpose is rock-bottom priority, just below making new sprites for the demon and reworking all the weapon sprites to be Freedoom-compatible.

I considered the ammo sharing, but on the balance and given how much ammo there is lying around and how much ammo you start with, it just wasn't worth the extra coding on my part and the extra learning curve and fiddliness of the interface as a whole.

And coding an entire weapon and revamping the weapon system for milliseconds of time advantage for a player? (NB: a tic, the smallest unit of time in Doom, is roughly 28ms.) I'd do it if I were, in fact, actually creating guns to save friendlies' lives in combat, but seeing that this is a game perhaps not. The vast majority of "I would have lived if I could have switched weapons faster" situations are, in my experience, avoidable with a bit more planning, or using a different weapon, or heck just luck of the draw.

Multiple different kinds of pistol, especially knockoffs of brand names, are just flat-out no.

I see your point about making small adjustments and will take a look at how to allow for those.

EDIT: Re the grenade launcher landing at your feet: I assume you're trying to fire off a windowsill or ledge or something and the grenade is bouncing off the wrong way. The grenade's origin is changed for future versions.
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Re: Hideous Destructor [last update 30 May 2008]

Postby Davidos » Sat May 31, 2008 4:39 pm

Vaecrius wrote:See, if I were to implement some of those suggestions, I would end up with very little that hasn't been done better by either GZDA, Diaz, or both.

Enemy reloading looks nice, but... why? Can you really seriously count the shots an enemy makes? Someone could, in theory, reload while someone else is firing, or partially reload, or pick up a nearby weapon, or any other thing that will screw up your count.

I'll look into casing sounds for the shotgun eventually, but right now any eye and ear candy that doesn't serve a functional purpose is rock-bottom priority, just below making new sprites for the demon and reworking all the weapon sprites to be Freedoom-compatible.

I considered the ammo sharing, but on the balance and given how much ammo there is lying around and how much ammo you start with, it just wasn't worth the extra coding on my part and the extra learning curve and fiddliness of the interface as a whole.

And coding an entire weapon and revamping the weapon system for milliseconds of time advantage for a player? (NB: a tic, the smallest unit of time in Doom, is roughly 28ms.) I'd do it if I were, in fact, actually creating guns to save friendlies' lives in combat, but seeing that this is a game perhaps not. The vast majority of "I would have lived if I could have switched weapons faster" situations are, in my experience, avoidable with a bit more planning, or using a different weapon, or heck just luck of the draw.

Multiple different kinds of pistol, especially knockoffs of brand names, are just flat-out no.

I see your point about making small adjustments and will take a look at how to allow for those.

EDIT: Re the grenade launcher landing at your feet: I assume you're trying to fire off a windowsill or ledge or something and the grenade is bouncing off the wrong way. The grenade's origin is changed for future versions.



TBH hot air balloon okay.

I don't see the point in all of your counter... points...
But whatever, you're the coder and I... well.. seriously don't give a crap if you do or dont do something because I want it to happen.

The reloading of enemies only adds to both the realism and the possibility to make flanking possible on the Ultra-realistic not-funny setting which I ALWAYS use to play this wad-mod.

The enemies can easily have some sort of cover system added to them, it should be easy if we... or wait, YOU, know how to make the AI detect environments.

Ammo and weapon sharing is severly needed in harder, custom maps which have little to no ammo or weapons laying around and is quite easily to make as far as I know.


And knock-offs? Hell, all of your weapons are knockoffs, they're already in the game, boohoo woohoo? What is the big deal.

Whatever.
If you don't mind, I have a dieing father to attend to right now. I'll see if I can do something for you later, without you asking for it.
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Re: Hideous Destructor [last update 30 May 2008]

Postby Matt » Sat May 31, 2008 5:55 pm

Uh. Right.

Anyway,

1) frag grenade works. will upload later pending any other additions or bugfixes that come up in the meantime.

2) is it just me or does the pump-action shotgun suck? I meant it to feel more sluggish than the SSG, but I can't help but think it's a bit much...
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