The best one for that is 2.3.2 linked from the OP.
All releases from that point onwards can be found on git.
Hideous Destructor 4.10.0b
-
mumblemumble
- Posts: 927
- Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2013 1:59 pm
Re: Hideous Destructor [Release version 3.1.0.1]
I feel very mixed on the new stable stuff.
On one hand, the optimizations are an amazing thing, as is the pickup change, and other things
On the other hand, I have major gripes.
Biggest thing is the new health system : it feels a bit wacky, strange, and I'm not sure what you were going for exactly. Health is so easily recovered when not bleeding it, to the point it feels like first aid, during these incidents is a non issue, non factor. However, in turn bleeding and fire seem much more obnoxious and fatal, particularly with armor needing to be removed, doing medical work being very painful and slow, and stimpacks being in semi short supply, especially early. It feels like theres either near death (or actual death) experiences, or slight bruises which fade in minutes with the new system, and I don't like it : I miss where injuries took a long time to heal, and limping around, and this feels like a janky version of the cod health system, with bleed out and deadly fire put in.
If I had to suggest keeping something like what you suggested, I would perhaps have wounds accumulate over time under armor, hampering aiming, movement, strength, and other factors until treated how the medkit is CURRENTLY used, as combat surgery supplies, while also adding in the old medkit function, and putting the "combat surgery" supplies where the second flesh is now : I think having such a common cure for lethal / aggrivated damage (or just lethal?) is a bit bizare, and perhaps a surgery unit could function as both the current means, and also to remove the accumulated wounds : stuff like setting bones, cutting off torn skin, dressing wounds, ect : stuff that let you move quicker, be in less pain, and be more effective while not necessarily reflecting health, and medkits still function as an emergency supply to stop bleeding, and stims function as now, giving a boost of nerve and health.
This way there would be a reason to slow down, and address yourself, but bleeding isn't completely screwy to deal with in combat without stims. It would also make medkits being more common more sensical, as the current means have me dropping medkits a LOT, since I can either bandage with just as much effectiveness, or ignore it till the battle is done, and use only 1 medkit to stop bleeding (compared to before, using several to gain health). Infact, thats another part : health is everywhere now, but sorta useless, as it seems so very easy to die from bleedout now. Theres TONS of medkits, but getting shot, and bleedout death being in 5 seconds is a death sentence without a stimpack, of which are limited, overdose, and also strangely feel op now? Its a strange balance of everything, and I don't like it at all. The health station was also removed so this only makes it worse, as an ace in the hole to deal with damage solo is pretty much gone.
Next is the heart monitor. Its not actually a bad feature, just has new problems presented compared to the old meter : Its hard to tell where the level is, which makes maintaining stamina an absolute headache. Its also hard to tell when pain / stamina is not enough to say, climb a wall, and a more precise readout would be handy for this. I almost want to suggest bringing back the old thing, and keeping the heart rate separately.
The grab feature is certainly nice, but not without its quirks. First, I think its a little TOO vague, and responsive, I can understand not needing to look directly at, but it seems I dont even need to look down with it. I would suggest at least taking in an angle of looking down possible in software mode, and adding this in for a "grab under" thing, where it grabs anything under / infront, or at least limit the auto grab to say, within a SSG spread around the crosshair. Beyond that, a side-effect of the new system is opening boxes instantly grabs the grenade as it pops out, which looks and feels very strange. Its very nice, but the change you made with the grabbing being anywhere is just a LITTLE OP. but more importantly, it feels unrealistic.
Current placement of hud gun icon is right over the hud face : seems odd compared to the old position, on the left side of the screen.
Its not a bad update, but it feels like its kinda shattered balance with the new medical system. I hope the medical system is heavily revised, because I'd honestly rather play the old stable, despite the updates to performance, than the current stuff right now due to it. Maybe my opinion will change, as tweaks are made, but I cannot see it working well with the current system.
On one hand, the optimizations are an amazing thing, as is the pickup change, and other things
On the other hand, I have major gripes.
Biggest thing is the new health system : it feels a bit wacky, strange, and I'm not sure what you were going for exactly. Health is so easily recovered when not bleeding it, to the point it feels like first aid, during these incidents is a non issue, non factor. However, in turn bleeding and fire seem much more obnoxious and fatal, particularly with armor needing to be removed, doing medical work being very painful and slow, and stimpacks being in semi short supply, especially early. It feels like theres either near death (or actual death) experiences, or slight bruises which fade in minutes with the new system, and I don't like it : I miss where injuries took a long time to heal, and limping around, and this feels like a janky version of the cod health system, with bleed out and deadly fire put in.
If I had to suggest keeping something like what you suggested, I would perhaps have wounds accumulate over time under armor, hampering aiming, movement, strength, and other factors until treated how the medkit is CURRENTLY used, as combat surgery supplies, while also adding in the old medkit function, and putting the "combat surgery" supplies where the second flesh is now : I think having such a common cure for lethal / aggrivated damage (or just lethal?) is a bit bizare, and perhaps a surgery unit could function as both the current means, and also to remove the accumulated wounds : stuff like setting bones, cutting off torn skin, dressing wounds, ect : stuff that let you move quicker, be in less pain, and be more effective while not necessarily reflecting health, and medkits still function as an emergency supply to stop bleeding, and stims function as now, giving a boost of nerve and health.
This way there would be a reason to slow down, and address yourself, but bleeding isn't completely screwy to deal with in combat without stims. It would also make medkits being more common more sensical, as the current means have me dropping medkits a LOT, since I can either bandage with just as much effectiveness, or ignore it till the battle is done, and use only 1 medkit to stop bleeding (compared to before, using several to gain health). Infact, thats another part : health is everywhere now, but sorta useless, as it seems so very easy to die from bleedout now. Theres TONS of medkits, but getting shot, and bleedout death being in 5 seconds is a death sentence without a stimpack, of which are limited, overdose, and also strangely feel op now? Its a strange balance of everything, and I don't like it at all. The health station was also removed so this only makes it worse, as an ace in the hole to deal with damage solo is pretty much gone.
Next is the heart monitor. Its not actually a bad feature, just has new problems presented compared to the old meter : Its hard to tell where the level is, which makes maintaining stamina an absolute headache. Its also hard to tell when pain / stamina is not enough to say, climb a wall, and a more precise readout would be handy for this. I almost want to suggest bringing back the old thing, and keeping the heart rate separately.
The grab feature is certainly nice, but not without its quirks. First, I think its a little TOO vague, and responsive, I can understand not needing to look directly at, but it seems I dont even need to look down with it. I would suggest at least taking in an angle of looking down possible in software mode, and adding this in for a "grab under" thing, where it grabs anything under / infront, or at least limit the auto grab to say, within a SSG spread around the crosshair. Beyond that, a side-effect of the new system is opening boxes instantly grabs the grenade as it pops out, which looks and feels very strange. Its very nice, but the change you made with the grabbing being anywhere is just a LITTLE OP. but more importantly, it feels unrealistic.
Current placement of hud gun icon is right over the hud face : seems odd compared to the old position, on the left side of the screen.
Its not a bad update, but it feels like its kinda shattered balance with the new medical system. I hope the medical system is heavily revised, because I'd honestly rather play the old stable, despite the updates to performance, than the current stuff right now due to it. Maybe my opinion will change, as tweaks are made, but I cannot see it working well with the current system.
Re: Hideous Destructor [Release version 3.1.0.1]
I actually really, really strongly disagree with this. The new medical system is a much better compromise between realism and gameplay than the old one was, because frankly the old one made no sense to start applying bandages to yourself while in the middle of a firefight. Stimpacks are not whatsoever limited, because you get one with each medkit, and the cooldown on overdosing is pretty forgiving. Improvised bandaging is still in and doesn't require you to take your armor off, and it temporarily stops bleeding, which combined with the new stim system, more or less accomplishes what the old medkits did. Health stations were horribly finicky and usually by the time I limp my way over to one I'm already dead. No one I've asked has said that the medical system was a consistently useful thing to have.mumblemumble wrote: This way there would be a reason to slow down, and address yourself, but bleeding isn't completely screwy to deal with in combat without stims. It would also make medkits being more common more sensical, as the current means have me dropping medkits a LOT, since I can either bandage with just as much effectiveness, or ignore it till the battle is done, and use only 1 medkit to stop bleeding (compared to before, using several to gain health). Infact, thats another part : health is everywhere now, but sorta useless, as it seems so very easy to die from bleedout now. Theres TONS of medkits, but getting shot, and bleedout death being in 5 seconds is a death sentence without a stimpack, of which are limited, overdose, and also strangely feel op now? Its a strange balance of everything, and I don't like it at all. The health station was also removed so this only makes it worse, as an ace in the hole to deal with damage solo is pretty much gone.
-
Fort of Hard Knox
- Posts: 197
- Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2011 3:50 pm
- Location: Texas
Re: Hideous Destructor [Release version 3.1.0.1]
I can actually remember the 5 or 6 times I've used the station, and it was always while having to make sure I could spare the supplies that would do the same job with a bit of time. It has allowed me to survive a few 'unwinnable doorways', but I usually just used my medical supplies sans tower, to make sure that I could stay more mobile.
I do have to say the new medical system feels more grounded than the original, even with the mechanic of having to remove armor. I find that the quick bandage comes into play more prominently, actually feeling like it belongs in the mod.
I do have to say the new medical system feels more grounded than the original, even with the mechanic of having to remove armor. I find that the quick bandage comes into play more prominently, actually feeling like it belongs in the mod.
-
Matt
- Posts: 9696
- Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2004 5:37 pm
- Preferred Pronouns: They/Them
- Operating System Version (Optional): Debian Bullseye
- Location: Gotham City SAR, Wyld-Lands of the Lotus People, Dominionist PetroConfederacy of Saudi Canadia
- Contact:
Re: Hideous Destructor [Release version 3.1.0.1]
I get this, though I've been trying to get the fatigue system to cover as much of this as I could. Health is now more of an abstract sense of psychosomatic overall morale.I miss where injuries took a long time to heal, and limping around, and this feels like a janky version of the cod health system, with bleed out and deadly fire put in.
Agreed that recovery from longer-term damage is far too cheap and common now. I might make the Second Flesh a separate item...
Re: Hideous Destructor [Release version 3.1.0.1]
I did neglect to mention that I agree that long-term damage is too much of a non-issue currently.
-
mumblemumble
- Posts: 927
- Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2013 1:59 pm
Re: Hideous Destructor [Release version 3.1.0.1]
I suppose... maybe this is just severe growing pains : I've not figured out at all how to effectively manage health with the new system, when its better to bleed, or strip off armor, ect. I'm confused by it all, and the difference between dying to bleeding or fire, or surviving and gaining all health back in a minute is so jarring it makes my head spin a little : and I don't even know what works most effective now.
To be fair, the med station was stupid OP : I remember testing, and you could easily heal several hundred HP off a single station loadout, so it was like an ultra super concentrated health pack. Just had to drop it down and wait a second, but when it worked, it gave a healing rate over the berserk pack.
somagu, its funny you mention bandages during combat : medical kits were always non descript before, but to me functioned like a steroid laced, cauterizing biofoam like its supposed to be now, except you just injected the spot that was the problem : like the stim pack, except the stim had more steroids, less cauterizing things, for example. But now I'd much rather bandage in combat than use a medkit : which, I currently start with 4, but zero stims, so if I get shot before finding one, shit REALLY sucks, and I end up throwing away my medkits simply because it feels like dead weight : half the time either I survive unharmed, or get shot and using the medkit after taking my armor off is too late / I get shot while I stumble out of cover from excruciating pain of a dewalt auto carpet stapler goring my stomach.
what if the medkit was less effective at stopping bleeding, and caused numbing / fatigue, and possibly raised the "injury" count, to my suggestion of injuries detracting from player fitness, but could be used as quick as before? Because this is the main issue for me is medkits aren't expedient enough to use in combat, and thus, REALLY feel like there's no point for me to carry them : they are heavy, don't help in combat fights, and I feel like I can get by on stims and bandages, and using a medkit is too dangerous given the time consuming process, lack of armor, and the fact it throws me around during it. So is something going to change to where medkits don't feel like trash? Because even IF the current health system of rapid regeneration stays, this feels like a problem...or am I alone on this? This is one of the main reasons I'm calling for a change, is because every time I play I immediately dump a few medkits just to reduce carry weight, and am often dumping medkits, while feinding for more stimpacks : which feels very wrong...
Please tell me : is everyone else using the medkits as much as they get them? Am I completely alone in dumping them, and grabbing stims? Because I remember in the old version, it was a delicate balance of both and both were SEMI interchangable, with stims for in combat, medical kits for trauma addressing, but either could be swapped, and I never left either.
Really want people to share their opinion on the new medkit, because I feel VERY lost, like I'm missing something big.
To be fair, the med station was stupid OP : I remember testing, and you could easily heal several hundred HP off a single station loadout, so it was like an ultra super concentrated health pack. Just had to drop it down and wait a second, but when it worked, it gave a healing rate over the berserk pack.
somagu, its funny you mention bandages during combat : medical kits were always non descript before, but to me functioned like a steroid laced, cauterizing biofoam like its supposed to be now, except you just injected the spot that was the problem : like the stim pack, except the stim had more steroids, less cauterizing things, for example. But now I'd much rather bandage in combat than use a medkit : which, I currently start with 4, but zero stims, so if I get shot before finding one, shit REALLY sucks, and I end up throwing away my medkits simply because it feels like dead weight : half the time either I survive unharmed, or get shot and using the medkit after taking my armor off is too late / I get shot while I stumble out of cover from excruciating pain of a dewalt auto carpet stapler goring my stomach.
what if the medkit was less effective at stopping bleeding, and caused numbing / fatigue, and possibly raised the "injury" count, to my suggestion of injuries detracting from player fitness, but could be used as quick as before? Because this is the main issue for me is medkits aren't expedient enough to use in combat, and thus, REALLY feel like there's no point for me to carry them : they are heavy, don't help in combat fights, and I feel like I can get by on stims and bandages, and using a medkit is too dangerous given the time consuming process, lack of armor, and the fact it throws me around during it. So is something going to change to where medkits don't feel like trash? Because even IF the current health system of rapid regeneration stays, this feels like a problem...or am I alone on this? This is one of the main reasons I'm calling for a change, is because every time I play I immediately dump a few medkits just to reduce carry weight, and am often dumping medkits, while feinding for more stimpacks : which feels very wrong...
Please tell me : is everyone else using the medkits as much as they get them? Am I completely alone in dumping them, and grabbing stims? Because I remember in the old version, it was a delicate balance of both and both were SEMI interchangable, with stims for in combat, medical kits for trauma addressing, but either could be swapped, and I never left either.
Really want people to share their opinion on the new medkit, because I feel VERY lost, like I'm missing something big.
Re: Hideous Destructor [Release version 3.1.0.1]
Well, the caveat here is that most of the rest of us don't play with weight enabled. Vae has said he's going to change out the 4 medkits with 1 medkit and a handful of stims as the typical class loadout, he just hasn't done it yet. Yes, a single medkit goes a long way and very typically a single medkit will carry you through over a single stage worth of grievous bleeding. Unless you're playing on co-op, in which case you MUST use a fresh medkit if you're healing someone else.
My opinion on the new medkit is that it's a single facet of a health system that I feel is a lot more tangible and gives much better feedback to the player. Bind an easy key to improvised bandages so that you can change to it quickly and tap it to see if you're bleeding or not. If you are, you can continue the improvised bandaging to temporarily stop it, jab a stim in your chest, or you can take the time to remove your armor to staple it closed. It's all about gauging your priorities. Bleeding is no longer a one-and-done system and you have to factor it in as an enemy just as much as the imp throwing fireballs at you. It's something you need to devote time and attention to rather than simply using a medkit and pressing on.
[edit]Also, you can't get by on stims and improvised bandages, because improvised bandages only temporarily stop bleeding. That's the entire point of medkits, so that you can close them for good.
I personally have never got killed as a consequence of stapling my wounds shut (but I do get what you mean), and I actually feel like medkits are way, way better than they've ever been at stopping bleeding, because the only way I would ever stop bleeding before is with the aid of improvised bandaging, which practically speaking is pretty stupid. Medkits now serve as a faster, more reliable form of improvised bandaging, and that's exactly how I use them.
My opinion on the new medkit is that it's a single facet of a health system that I feel is a lot more tangible and gives much better feedback to the player. Bind an easy key to improvised bandages so that you can change to it quickly and tap it to see if you're bleeding or not. If you are, you can continue the improvised bandaging to temporarily stop it, jab a stim in your chest, or you can take the time to remove your armor to staple it closed. It's all about gauging your priorities. Bleeding is no longer a one-and-done system and you have to factor it in as an enemy just as much as the imp throwing fireballs at you. It's something you need to devote time and attention to rather than simply using a medkit and pressing on.
[edit]Also, you can't get by on stims and improvised bandages, because improvised bandages only temporarily stop bleeding. That's the entire point of medkits, so that you can close them for good.
I personally have never got killed as a consequence of stapling my wounds shut (but I do get what you mean), and I actually feel like medkits are way, way better than they've ever been at stopping bleeding, because the only way I would ever stop bleeding before is with the aid of improvised bandaging, which practically speaking is pretty stupid. Medkits now serve as a faster, more reliable form of improvised bandaging, and that's exactly how I use them.
-
Matt
- Posts: 9696
- Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2004 5:37 pm
- Preferred Pronouns: They/Them
- Operating System Version (Optional): Debian Bullseye
- Location: Gotham City SAR, Wyld-Lands of the Lotus People, Dominionist PetroConfederacy of Saudi Canadia
- Contact:
Re: Hideous Destructor [Release version 3.1.0.1]
Glad to hear it, Somagu - that's pretty much exactly the sort of balance I'm intending with this.
"he just hasn't done it yet."
Keep in mind I'm still publishing changes on git, the releases are just things I think are reasonably bug-free enough to be playable without worrying about crashing or ending up with something fundamentally broken.
The latest dev commit is this huge nerf of the Second Flesh. This may well end up swinging the pendulum the other way, but my intention with this tech has always been that it should be more like the stuff the Uruk-hai gave the hobbits than the stuff Aslan gave Lucy (which the blue bottles should more closely resemble).
"he just hasn't done it yet."
Keep in mind I'm still publishing changes on git, the releases are just things I think are reasonably bug-free enough to be playable without worrying about crashing or ending up with something fundamentally broken.
The latest dev commit is this huge nerf of the Second Flesh. This may well end up swinging the pendulum the other way, but my intention with this tech has always been that it should be more like the stuff the Uruk-hai gave the hobbits than the stuff Aslan gave Lucy (which the blue bottles should more closely resemble).
Re: Hideous Destructor [Release version 3.1.0.1]
just wanted to make a quick comment on how the babuins can literally clamp onto me and phase out of existence while still munching my ass :c
of couse this could be intentional knowing how the mod operates by now
of couse this could be intentional knowing how the mod operates by now
-
mumblemumble
- Posts: 927
- Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2013 1:59 pm
Re: Hideous Destructor [Release version 3.1.0.1]
I suppose so...I honestly REALLY liked the old medical system WAY more than the current one : I almost wish there could be a CVAR to switch between the 2, but realize this would be a nightmare to get done correctly. but the game-play is so radically different.
Shame because some of the stuff is cool, like the more advanced effects, and the stimpack injector and all that. But I suppose the whole medical change is just VERY hard to get used to.
I did notice with stim packs it raises heart rate up significantly, which then disables running : this is very strange as I expected it to function like the one in l4d2, where you ran faster, like adrenaline, rather than the other way around. Beyond that seems like stamina in general is more finicky with things. Shame as it could be a cool mechanic, of stims being extremely useful for all kinds of situations, but the extra fatigue upon use is really not necessary, and seems out of place.
I think the running issue is a symptom of changing to the heart rate, but not changing the fatigue checks for running, jumping, and all that : as right after an injection I cannot sprint, which is incredibly backwards (though I dont have the latest git version, just the release).
Stimpack overdose also seems a bit off : currently 2 in a row is fatal, and while I'm sure it wouldn't be HEALTHY to do 2 at once, I highly doubt it would kill you, so much as make you jittery as all fuck, shakey, and prone to an unhealthy heart rate / nasty crash. I also find it funny the player does a death scream when dying from an overdose, rather than just passing out and not waking up. I think maybe 2 should carry a death risk, and 3 is a guaranteed overdose, and having a higher overall tolerance in the system towards overdosing, while a slower filtration period, so it takes longer for the dosage level to lower.
Currently seems as if no bleed makes medkits 100% useless, outside second flesh. This may be WAD, but is something to consider
When and why did you make the rocket launcher straightfire dud out at short ranges? I gotta admit, I really hate it, as it feels like the rocket launcher was effectively castrated : I cannot even slay the mancubus on the first trap in the tunnels on plutonia map 3 "aztec", as, despite being around 10 - 15 yards out, it just bounces off. Really wish I could make them force detonate, because the range for this feature is way too harsh : Id rather risk some shrapnel to the chest than be cooked up by demons. I kinda figure for straightfire this should stop, especially since the higher velocity and gyro burning would make it very difficult to stop the detonation on impact anyway : the grenade would possibly break apart and then the burning fuel would detonate the charge. In short, I think this change should be rolls back, because it made the rocket launcher a headache to use. Infact the general range increase makes it odd. How about a compromise : you can use the timer on grenades, and dial it back from normal mode to make it an "impact on all range" mode, perhaps with a warning about use of this mode voiding all death and dismemberment lawsuits. So one can use it, but if your grenade clips a wall and you die, the company holds no responsibility. This would be a fun compromise, and neat lore. But either way I figure the arm distance could be cut by 50% easily, and I frankly think rockets should not have the disarm feature at all.
I feel like with the revamp in pain, fatigue, and all that, you forgot about the sprinting cut-off : I'm finding I end up unable to sprint in the dumbest scenarios. As an example, I was on plutonia map 1, and got to the part with the + shaped walkway, and the pain elemental ambush. I turned, tried to rocket, but the rocket teleported (not sure how I feel about ROCKETS teleporting, compared to grenades) and then the rocket impacted behind me, with shrapnal hitting my back, doing 7 damage and a bit of pain. Whatever, I can make this work with sprinting right? Nope.... try to sprint back to the previous room, only to stumble and slow down like an old man, unable to sprint , which kills me from the lost souls. Feels like its far too easy to get too exausted to sprint, and that the fatigue system is overly bogged down, and its not helped that the heart rate doesn't have as clear a feedback as the old stamina bar : I feel really lost on what does what, and where my limits are, and its very frustrating to not know the players limits and mechanics, and be left guessing : but I suspect too many things are adding fatigue which then disables abilities, and nothing lowers it except movement : maybe fatigue should be seperated into more factors than just "fatigue" as a catch all? Because I really feel you are tying to add so very much, with it being a heart rate, and everything else is falling apart : just like the stimpack disabling running, because the heart rate is too high, when really it should LET you run when you otherwise are exhausted...
Currently medkits and stims can be wasted by "using them", but not actually using them with the item : for instance using 2 medkits when the sutre kit isn't even used on yourself. Feels like there should be something to prevent this.
I also take back what I said about second flesh : it seems when fighting imps and barons, burn damage stacks up very quick. I ended up with 36 burn damage and 10 "covered" wounds and it took several second fleshes to get back to 90 hp, but as said above, using a few medkits to close wounds WASTES the second fleshes inside them : which is a severe logistical issue not fitting of hideous destructors gameplay. But at the same time, then my max health hit 100 with 12% burns in the medical scanner? What does this mean, being at 100 health with 12% burns?? EDIT : ok turns out second flesh just takes a while, and its more effective than I thought, but still, being at 100 hp with 12% burns confused me...
I guess the new health system isn't THAT bad, but I'll be damned if it doesn't demand I relearn everything, and there needs to be many tweaks to stims, health packs, and the fatigue system to balance it.
Oh and lesson learned...dont pop 2 stims trying to ourheal fire : you will die of a heart attack. 1 works amazingly well at surviving fire though, especially when standing still (though its still very annoying stims break sprint)
As a quality of life improvement...any way you could make "strip armor" function as "equip held armor" as well? or would that be too OP?
Shame because some of the stuff is cool, like the more advanced effects, and the stimpack injector and all that. But I suppose the whole medical change is just VERY hard to get used to.
I did notice with stim packs it raises heart rate up significantly, which then disables running : this is very strange as I expected it to function like the one in l4d2, where you ran faster, like adrenaline, rather than the other way around. Beyond that seems like stamina in general is more finicky with things. Shame as it could be a cool mechanic, of stims being extremely useful for all kinds of situations, but the extra fatigue upon use is really not necessary, and seems out of place.
I think the running issue is a symptom of changing to the heart rate, but not changing the fatigue checks for running, jumping, and all that : as right after an injection I cannot sprint, which is incredibly backwards (though I dont have the latest git version, just the release).
Stimpack overdose also seems a bit off : currently 2 in a row is fatal, and while I'm sure it wouldn't be HEALTHY to do 2 at once, I highly doubt it would kill you, so much as make you jittery as all fuck, shakey, and prone to an unhealthy heart rate / nasty crash. I also find it funny the player does a death scream when dying from an overdose, rather than just passing out and not waking up. I think maybe 2 should carry a death risk, and 3 is a guaranteed overdose, and having a higher overall tolerance in the system towards overdosing, while a slower filtration period, so it takes longer for the dosage level to lower.
Currently seems as if no bleed makes medkits 100% useless, outside second flesh. This may be WAD, but is something to consider
When and why did you make the rocket launcher straightfire dud out at short ranges? I gotta admit, I really hate it, as it feels like the rocket launcher was effectively castrated : I cannot even slay the mancubus on the first trap in the tunnels on plutonia map 3 "aztec", as, despite being around 10 - 15 yards out, it just bounces off. Really wish I could make them force detonate, because the range for this feature is way too harsh : Id rather risk some shrapnel to the chest than be cooked up by demons. I kinda figure for straightfire this should stop, especially since the higher velocity and gyro burning would make it very difficult to stop the detonation on impact anyway : the grenade would possibly break apart and then the burning fuel would detonate the charge. In short, I think this change should be rolls back, because it made the rocket launcher a headache to use. Infact the general range increase makes it odd. How about a compromise : you can use the timer on grenades, and dial it back from normal mode to make it an "impact on all range" mode, perhaps with a warning about use of this mode voiding all death and dismemberment lawsuits. So one can use it, but if your grenade clips a wall and you die, the company holds no responsibility. This would be a fun compromise, and neat lore. But either way I figure the arm distance could be cut by 50% easily, and I frankly think rockets should not have the disarm feature at all.
I feel like with the revamp in pain, fatigue, and all that, you forgot about the sprinting cut-off : I'm finding I end up unable to sprint in the dumbest scenarios. As an example, I was on plutonia map 1, and got to the part with the + shaped walkway, and the pain elemental ambush. I turned, tried to rocket, but the rocket teleported (not sure how I feel about ROCKETS teleporting, compared to grenades) and then the rocket impacted behind me, with shrapnal hitting my back, doing 7 damage and a bit of pain. Whatever, I can make this work with sprinting right? Nope.... try to sprint back to the previous room, only to stumble and slow down like an old man, unable to sprint , which kills me from the lost souls. Feels like its far too easy to get too exausted to sprint, and that the fatigue system is overly bogged down, and its not helped that the heart rate doesn't have as clear a feedback as the old stamina bar : I feel really lost on what does what, and where my limits are, and its very frustrating to not know the players limits and mechanics, and be left guessing : but I suspect too many things are adding fatigue which then disables abilities, and nothing lowers it except movement : maybe fatigue should be seperated into more factors than just "fatigue" as a catch all? Because I really feel you are tying to add so very much, with it being a heart rate, and everything else is falling apart : just like the stimpack disabling running, because the heart rate is too high, when really it should LET you run when you otherwise are exhausted...
Currently medkits and stims can be wasted by "using them", but not actually using them with the item : for instance using 2 medkits when the sutre kit isn't even used on yourself. Feels like there should be something to prevent this.
I also take back what I said about second flesh : it seems when fighting imps and barons, burn damage stacks up very quick. I ended up with 36 burn damage and 10 "covered" wounds and it took several second fleshes to get back to 90 hp, but as said above, using a few medkits to close wounds WASTES the second fleshes inside them : which is a severe logistical issue not fitting of hideous destructors gameplay. But at the same time, then my max health hit 100 with 12% burns in the medical scanner? What does this mean, being at 100 health with 12% burns?? EDIT : ok turns out second flesh just takes a while, and its more effective than I thought, but still, being at 100 hp with 12% burns confused me...
I guess the new health system isn't THAT bad, but I'll be damned if it doesn't demand I relearn everything, and there needs to be many tweaks to stims, health packs, and the fatigue system to balance it.
Oh and lesson learned...dont pop 2 stims trying to ourheal fire : you will die of a heart attack. 1 works amazingly well at surviving fire though, especially when standing still (though its still very annoying stims break sprint)
As a quality of life improvement...any way you could make "strip armor" function as "equip held armor" as well? or would that be too OP?
Re: Hideous Destructor [Release version 3.1.0.1]
So uhh, is there something wrong with my GZDoom or did the ZM66's scope break?
Last edited by Accensus on Sun Jun 11, 2017 4:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Resized image. Was too big.
Reason: Resized image. Was too big.
Re: Hideous Destructor [Release version 3.1.0.1]
Stims do not do this. I am 100% sure that stims and berserks do not consume anything until you click to jab them into your chest, and if they do, it's bugged. For medkits, you just need to hit 9 a second time to get to your current first aid kit to not waste it. This is important, because at any given moment you might have a reason to either want to keep or ditch your current first aid kit, for a fresh needle or if you want to keep/get a new Second Flesh. Unifying either of those two functions would make doing that a huge pain in the ass. It's fine the way it is.mumblemumble wrote: Currently medkits and stims can be wasted by "using them", but not actually using them with the item : for instance using 2 medkits when the sutre kit isn't even used on yourself. Feels like there should be something to prevent this.
-
Matt
- Posts: 9696
- Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2004 5:37 pm
- Preferred Pronouns: They/Them
- Operating System Version (Optional): Debian Bullseye
- Location: Gotham City SAR, Wyld-Lands of the Lotus People, Dominionist PetroConfederacy of Saudi Canadia
- Contact:
Re: Hideous Destructor [Release version 3.1.0.1]
Ayylien: No idea. Evilution Map02 works fine for me. What other mods are you loading?
(Something like that is usually the result of another actor spawning with the same TID as the scope camera actor, which is [your player number]-32000, or some other thing that's interfering with the camera actor from spawning at all.)
Mumbles/Somagu: I personally would like it to be more consistent myself but the reusable nature of the medikit does require the additional layer of versatility (and accompanying complication).
When I finally get some sprites for this the used med should be visibly bloody.
EDIT:
(Something like that is usually the result of another actor spawning with the same TID as the scope camera actor, which is [your player number]-32000, or some other thing that's interfering with the camera actor from spawning at all.)
Mumbles/Somagu: I personally would like it to be more consistent myself but the reusable nature of the medikit does require the additional layer of versatility (and accompanying complication).
When I finally get some sprites for this the used med should be visibly bloody.
EDIT:
Done.As a quality of life improvement...any way you could make "strip armor" function as "equip held armor" as well? or would that be too OP?
-
mumblemumble
- Posts: 927
- Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2013 1:59 pm
Re: Hideous Destructor [Release version 3.1.0.1]
Very nice.
I do hope meds can be made more logistical, losing items to the void is aggrivating when I've gotten used to having every bullet, grenade, and item accounted for.
I haven't tried the new update with the second flesh nerf, but should : also, how exactly does aggrivated damage show in the health readout? I was under the impression it CURED aggrivated damage. I'm still very fuzzy on what the analyzer is telling me. But I'm worried the raise in aggrivated damage might be a bit much... Also as a suggestion, could the second flesh lower the max hp during to 25 instead? 10 is VERY fragile, and while I get that its straining, I think one could take a bite from a babuin, or a shrapnel grazing without killing during..
I worry with stims that they can be used to effectively murder others in coop : granted, HD coop is generally with close friends, but maybe a CVAR should be done for injecting of drugs. Just a thoughts, so someone doesn't jab you with 2 stims to assassinate you when friendlyfire is off.
Currently the medic seems woefully equipped : he has an auto pistol and full meds, and doesn't even have 6 spar mags : and his med station is gone. He could really use some love. I suppose hes realistic for a medic, but still...
Oh, and why does 2 stims kill me, but 8 shots of berserk WITH 8 stims is a party? I think popping 2 berserks would make me die horrifically : actually, I have a nasty suggestion : what if too much berserk causes the player to gib themselves from the hyper tense muscles literally ripping themselves apart? That would be pretty horrific, but kinda cool at the same time, and would fit with the "scary, experimental war drug" feeling. Maybe even a bunch of screaming, and intense fatigue before gibbing, and would prevent berserk tanking with a medic, or berserk heavy maps....
Another idea : with the health change, any way we could get some advanced healing items to go over 100 hp? Would help since spheres were effectively nerfed otherwise, a megasphere raising to 175 to 200, soulsphere to 150, health vials 125, ect. Another idea is letting supernatural items give pretty much the opposite of aggravated damage, which is removed either slowly over time, or from damage, and cancels out any lethal / aggravated damage, with a 1 to 1 ratio for aggravated damage healing, and 1 to 2 for lethal .. . Perhaps even berserk and stims could raise it slightly for the duration of the high, to reflect a higher morale, but a slight crash too.
I do hope meds can be made more logistical, losing items to the void is aggrivating when I've gotten used to having every bullet, grenade, and item accounted for.
I haven't tried the new update with the second flesh nerf, but should : also, how exactly does aggrivated damage show in the health readout? I was under the impression it CURED aggrivated damage. I'm still very fuzzy on what the analyzer is telling me. But I'm worried the raise in aggrivated damage might be a bit much... Also as a suggestion, could the second flesh lower the max hp during to 25 instead? 10 is VERY fragile, and while I get that its straining, I think one could take a bite from a babuin, or a shrapnel grazing without killing during..
I worry with stims that they can be used to effectively murder others in coop : granted, HD coop is generally with close friends, but maybe a CVAR should be done for injecting of drugs. Just a thoughts, so someone doesn't jab you with 2 stims to assassinate you when friendlyfire is off.
Currently the medic seems woefully equipped : he has an auto pistol and full meds, and doesn't even have 6 spar mags : and his med station is gone. He could really use some love. I suppose hes realistic for a medic, but still...
Oh, and why does 2 stims kill me, but 8 shots of berserk WITH 8 stims is a party? I think popping 2 berserks would make me die horrifically : actually, I have a nasty suggestion : what if too much berserk causes the player to gib themselves from the hyper tense muscles literally ripping themselves apart? That would be pretty horrific, but kinda cool at the same time, and would fit with the "scary, experimental war drug" feeling. Maybe even a bunch of screaming, and intense fatigue before gibbing, and would prevent berserk tanking with a medic, or berserk heavy maps....
Another idea : with the health change, any way we could get some advanced healing items to go over 100 hp? Would help since spheres were effectively nerfed otherwise, a megasphere raising to 175 to 200, soulsphere to 150, health vials 125, ect. Another idea is letting supernatural items give pretty much the opposite of aggravated damage, which is removed either slowly over time, or from damage, and cancels out any lethal / aggravated damage, with a 1 to 1 ratio for aggravated damage healing, and 1 to 2 for lethal .. . Perhaps even berserk and stims could raise it slightly for the duration of the high, to reflect a higher morale, but a slight crash too.