Hideous Destructor 4.10.0b

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Matt
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Re: Hideous Destructor [Release version 3.3.2.1]

Post by Matt »

Not sure how the gameplay/lore logic works exactly, but unless each second flesh has a separate burn cream packet or something that gets used/wasted each time you use second flesh, it feels a bit wasteful using it a good deal of the time.
Admittedly I did not think this through in that detail, though the notion that we're wasting a lot each shot makes sense on some levels given my experience with emergency medical spplies generally... anyway, since I don't even have the beginning of a good answer for this, I'll make it more random.


In other news, just a reminder that this is a thing.
mumblemumble
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Re: Hideous Destructor [Release version 3.3.2.1]

Post by mumblemumble »

I'm serious....looking in latest commits, I see you buffed bullets a bit, and I wonder if this is a problem. Shotgunners are instantly lethal far more than before, right out the gate on rifleman class, and burst zombiemen make things even worse, as they have almost better range, kill before you can react, and they are common enough that a small group would be a death sentance where before, with just automatics, it was a reasonable battle.

Beyond that, I did research, and delayed salvo bursts like the zm seem pretty expensive and prohibited, more than automatics by far, so I think such weapons would be reserved for ELITE troopers, and be in less stock besides. I would mind a FIRE LIMITER, essentially a 3 round burst like the smg, with the same rate of fire, but the burst salvo is incredibly excessive, and defeats the point of a poorly trained zombieman who was basically shown the basics and had a rifle shoved in its arms...as burst makes it way too easy for them to kill, where semi or burst made them struggle a bit, rightfully so due to the neurological damage from resurrection.

There's also the issue that zombies can slide around and move while firing without having aim significantly distorted like the player, which gives them a distinct advantage ANYWAYS, ontop of the numbers, demons, ect... And that, burst fire, stronger bullets, weaker kevlar is just too much at once I think. Zombies were always a huge threat, but zombiemen and shotgunners never killed instantly at range typically, you had a split second to retreat, at least...thats gone now it seems. I know its realistic, but I also wonder, would the tyrant REALLY want such effective guns being on his lowest level troops, that will inverably face loses, and arm resistance?... on a pure logistical level it doesn't make sense... And to be honest, this really destroys established balance pretty badly.

I'm also getting a strange scope glitch where half the scope is just skybox, and not an actual scope.

Fyi, I'm not backing down on zombieman burst fire... Realism be damned, it absolutely destroys existing balance, and the expensive, specialized burst setup shouldn't be in the hands of grunts (they were bad enough in jackboots, but those were rare enough it was tolerable).

EDIT: have i lost my mind or is green armor actually making bullets do more damage?! In testing, it seems i on average take 10% less damage from bullets without, or am i losing my mind? Also bothers me how marine enemies can tank a shotgun with Kevlar, but I cannot.

EDIT: i have an interesting idea, what if players can choose a body type, which effects stats? Large medium or small? Larger frames carry more, punch harder, have slightly more hp and general recoil reduction, while smaller frames can dodge better, faster, are generally a bit more agile, possibly fit through smaller gaps, and do certain tasks like opening boxes or medical work with better effectiveness... Would be an interesting addition to class.

EDIT: ok, just played latest commit, and one shots seem to be gone. Good, thanks, i thought you were on one of your "let's make hd unreasonably hard" streaks again... Glad to see i was wrong. I'm glad I can actually take a shotgun blast now. :P

Though armor now crashes gzdoom if you pick it up when its damaged, like after using a medkit. please PRIORITIZE, as this makes gameplay impossible.

... And stop buffing bullets, i already cannot beat the spider mastermind (though tower of babel is an interesting, and very possible fight. Though if i might say, maybe maps with bosses should always spawn tbs / rocket launchers. Getting a blooper against a cyberdemon is painful.

For consistency sake, should the pump on the hunter only go back when you release secondary fire like the boss? Beyond that, shouldn't health levels play a small factor using the pump?

I would honestly allow bullets to do a minimum damage of 1 to the bosses... I am a bit perturbed by the fact a vulcanette at full blast does 0 damage in a test of 1000 rounds. Not like its a lot, but it would be something.

With imps and 762, why not instead give a bleed out state? Or alter damage resistance? Or something?

Punches seem to REALLY THROW healer imps, to the point i think collisions should do damage to enemies. Also, isn't flick a bit pointless, couldn't you achieve this by enabling punching during leaps and sprints, and just let the player do it? Could also then give left and right punches, maybe with separate (sorta?) cool downs, and stamina effects, and crits would better when swinging the opposite direction of the arm. Would make melee combat slightly deeper, and i like the idea of doing a sprinting leaping haymaker on an imps face to fracture its skull with damage. And with this system the reload function would become unnecessary, so maybe a shove function would work great, throwing an enemy off balance for a second or so, depending on mass, or possibly hurling them with berserk... Alternatively, a sort of grapple effect would be interesting, perhaps a check comparison of angle, health, rank of enemy, ect, and either throwing them off balance, throwing off aim, and possibly even dragging them like a sort of shield like in metal gear solid... Melee could be much deeper, as it is in real life. And if players could possibly do meat shields similar to how babuins do grappling, i could see this becoming a very useful tactic. Even if it was janky, slow movement, and the enemy struggled, being able to briefly tank shots with an enemy body would become extraordinary useful.

My poor vision gave me an idea for fire. What if corpses could up being burnt to a crisp using a simple grey filter on the corpse? Give burned bodies an additional resurrect point like gibbed bodies.

Bfg brace should disable mantillng all but hip high ledges, this should also apply once you make a chaingun brace.

Isn't g11, the basis for zm66 pretty much smokeless? Because vulcanette spews smoke on high, killing my framerate. I think one cloud every 4 shots would be just as effective, and less laggy. Honestly smoke, and debris in general is a huge lag source. And has been.

For obvious reasons, chainsaw should be immune to close range weapon lowering.

Exploding sectors should really do damage behind the impact zone. Its shocking that i can fire a bolt that detonates a monster closet door, yet zombies behind it are unharmed. Even if the blast and heat didn't kill them, metal / wood / glass / rock fragments would lacerate them pretty badly like a large frag grenade. It might be a cheap way to clear monster closets, but damnit its realistic, and frankly i think its a perfect counter to one of hds biggest threats, that also involves a large investment. Bolts and heats aren't cheap!
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Matt
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Re: Hideous Destructor [Release version 3.3.2.1]

Post by Matt »

From now on please be advised that I take suggestions according to the following guidelines:

1. Complaining that something is too hard will be given no weight.
2. Extrapolations from lore will be considered or not considered on a purely arbitrary basis, unless there is a genuine logical inconsistency that cannot be explained.
3. Actual bug reports will be addressed as soon as I see them and can deal with them. ("addressed" may include simply responding I can't be bothered to fix the thing.)
4. Complaints about implausible lore or mechanics will be given weight to the extent that the person complaining has demonstrable knowledge or expertise. This may include book learning.
5. All suggestions are subject to tl;dr.
Serathis
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Re: Hideous Destructor [Release version 3.3.2.1]

Post by Serathis »

As of latest git, burning dead bodies seem to burn forever.
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Matt
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Re: Hideous Destructor [Release version 3.3.2.1]

Post by Matt »

Like hours forever or minutes forever?

And what are these corpses of?
wizardful
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Re: Hideous Destructor [Release version 3.3.2.1]

Post by wizardful »

There is a feature in the game Jagged Alliance 2 (1.13) where your mercenaries will forget exactly how much ammunition they have in their magazine while in battle. They will approximate the number of bullets left, and the accuracy is dependent on their wisdom stat. From simply '??' to knowing it has around 20 or around 10, and so on.

In HD, some weapons have a counter that displays remaining ammo, some don't. But it doesn't matter when weapons lack this counter. The bar on the HUD represents your ammo accurately enough for this lack of counter to not be a disadvantage. When I reload a partially spent ZM66 magazine and the counter malfunctions, I can still use the bar to see my ammo. I've always assumed that the caseless ammo and electronic counter thing was a bit of satire, but the ammo bar still makes it pointless. Would be cool if you didn't have that bar unless you stood still and checked your inventory, or maybe it could display an approximation... just a suggestion.

On a related note, didn't older versions of HD not have a visible health number? I have vague memories of needing to use Doomguy's face to determine my remaining health. I really liked that. Since the current medkit has a diagnostics scan function, your health value could be listed there instead of always being displayed.

Not sure if it's obvious, but I greatly enjoy the unforgiving and meticulous nature of this mod. I hope there will be more creative !FUN! added in the future.
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Matt
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Re: Hideous Destructor [Release version 3.3.2.1]

Post by Matt »

The health number was only re-added when I started making everything stupidly complicated when ZScript came out - I found myself constantly checking to see when I was able to walk or run again and it just kinda stuck. [EDIT: I just want to say that the recent change in which you randomly take long-term damage and get left with 1-3hp instead of dying outright is a result of my thinking this over. I like it better if that number isn't as precise an indicator of one's mortality.]

I've considered making the ammo counter more ambiguous but it always felt like more trouble than it was worth. Still kinda feels like it, but it's not nearly as complicated as I'd imagined.
Last edited by Matt on Mon May 07, 2018 10:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
Serathis
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Re: Hideous Destructor [Release version 3.3.2.1]

Post by Serathis »

Matt wrote:Like hours forever or minutes forever?

And what are these corpses of?
Im fairly sure I'm 10+ minutes in and they are still burning. Now that I think of it, only the baron and the knight keep burning but I didn't test on other bodies. Makes it fun when they get revived.
Serathis
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Re: Hideous Destructor [Release version 3.3.2.1]

Post by Serathis »

Also whenever I try to pick up something from the ground, I almost always end up punching the ground in addition to picking stuff up.
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Matt
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Re: Hideous Destructor [Release version 3.3.2.1]

Post by Matt »

Serathis wrote:Also whenever I try to pick up something from the ground, I almost always end up punching the ground in addition to picking stuff up.
Fixed. (Result of feature creep for the gibbing-corpse counter plus some ill-considered desire to keep things "clean" by getting rid of unused actors)
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Re: Hideous Destructor [Release version 3.3.2.1]

Post by Abba Zabba »

Couple minor bugs/inconsistencies:

Hell knights (and I believe barons) bleed red, believe this might have been the case ever since the ketchup mod was added to HD? I'm not sure, I'm still getting back into the swing of things in terms of status quo. Caco's red scales and blue blood is on point, though. Also IIRC, barrel's bleed too.

Got an SMG shellshade (which was really surprising and cool, thought they were exclusively select-fire ZM66 troopers) but because of whatever process it uses to make a shellshade, presumably some kind of actor inheritance, it's death is set to always drop a select-fire ZM66.
Serathis
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Re: Hideous Destructor [Release version 3.3.2.1]

Post by Serathis »

I think I know why barons and knighst don't cease burning: they are not registering as dead. An archangel and all the friendly demons kept attacking the corpse of barons.
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Matt
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Re: Hideous Destructor [Release version 3.3.2.1]

Post by Matt »

Knight/baron blood looks green to me, for frags and bullets and fists, and I never did anything with Ketchup.

As for registering as dead, I just summoned a bunch of marines and an archangel after summoning and killing a baron. For a second they suddenly all started going after the dead baron, but that was only because it was getting up after a shard got into it. When it died again they moved on.

tl;dr it all works for me at least in the latest git
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Re: Hideous Destructor [Release version 3.3.2.1]

Post by Silentdarkness12 »

Bug Report: The HERP will shoot at dead cacodemons. Might be related to the leftover electric bzzt-crackles.
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Matt
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Re: Hideous Destructor [Release version 3.3.2.1]

Post by Matt »

On the one hand, that shouldn't happen and I don't see from the code why it would.

On the other, it... makes sense that it would. o_O

I'll try to keep an eye out for it but not promising an actual fix.
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