Hideous Destructor 4.10.0b

[mumblemumble]

I think a better bet would be removing the suppressor which is on the smg (smg is normally a stealth gun right?) for something more resembling a mac10, for agile aiming / cqc fire, but louder, and much heavier recoil. The length on the barrel does seem a little long for a 9mm cartridge otherwise

[Matt]

Mumbles: Point taken about the fuel residue. The new imp balls (git, not release) do in fact only inflict more heat (unless there's a fuel splatter that I had inserted for whatever reason), but they do so over a half second or so.

.... Boy, i touched some pretty morbid shit there, sorry.

I guess it comes with the territory

Doom tends to treat death as being interchangeable with substantial short-term player incapacitation, and I haven't really messed with that since otherwise HD will be a "lie dying" simulator for 99% of all gameplay time.

I did not know that about Kevlar. Never really thought about it since I never expected typical HD fires to get near that point, but--::googles {how hot is a typical campfire}::--WELL THEN

[mumblemumble]

Yeah uhm... Campfires get hot, but you realize your average stick welder hits 35000 f. No, this is NOT a typo, 35k degrees. So i hope this stands as proof of heat and how saturation, size of the fire, and everything works. Because I've welded and leather gloves were enough to protect my hand inches away, because the point that was 35k was only the size of a penny, and no
longer exposure existed to go through the gloves.

Infact i wouldn't make imp balls leave smoke if its a self contained projectile, until impact. Maybe even, that imps wouldn't cause fire damage persay, but instead instant burns, except for maybe special fireballs designed for lingering fire? Getting flesh up to ignition point takes a lot of cooking, as all the water inside the body prevents combustion like wood, and by the time you get that dry you are dead anyway. There's also an issue of "heat sinking" which is why guns have the wrapped metal around the barrel, lots if metal for heat to transfer to, and lots of surface area to cool off. A standard butane torch can reach over 1000 but you can't weld with it, because its such a tiny point, youd need a much bigger volume of 1000 degrees to burn something substantial. This is why tinder is effective, low volume for heat sinking, so tinder lights easily makes more fire, lights twigs, makes more fire, lights branches, makes more fire, and eventually lights the log.

.... Also, please tell me you will alter the smg like a hybrid of mp5 stock, and a mac10, or mp7 body ? A tube stock that collapses into the body like a telescopic baton, underneath the slide , either being very compact, or long enough for rifle accuracy. This seriously would make smgs more unique.

Edit : new tb is nice, and powerful, but I've been thinking, why even have 2 modes? Why not combine them? A wide array beam makes no sense for being so devastating. Think of it like a magnifying glass, it gets extremely hot because it's focused, but unfocusing it would be less effective. I honestly think having 1 mode with both severe, instant burns on a single pulse, and detonation on high damage would be effective.

Edit 2 : https://youtu.be/F42Bsc8YtnU
This video got me thinking, that shotguns probably could use a rework in lethal ranges, particularly that pellets at ranges outside close range failed to penetrate 3/4 inch plywood. And at 50 yards, the pellets more than half missed. What was interesting, is he actually used CUT SHELLS as well, which proved to be decent, if ghetto slugs. I wonder, could we use the ammo manager setup to enable usage of cut shells? They probably wouldn't pump well, but you could hold the pump back to chamber them directly. I figured you could use a combination of buttons to enable swapping ammo types between cut, and uncut shells, and you could produce cut shells with a simple pocket knife that presumably everyone would have. It might be janky for the hunter shotgun, but would make sense for the lore of the ssg, being more powerful than the hunter due to the lack of moving parts, better seal, and ability to use impromptu cutshell slugs regularly without difficulty. It could also serve to put jackboots in their normal role, of CLOSE RANGE specialists, unless jack and Jill boots were smart enough to use cutshells.

[Somagu]

I'd like to point out that you either weren't paying very close attention or you chose your words very poorly, Mumbles.

The birdshot didn't penetrate very far out. The buckshot actually still had no problem penetrating as far out as 100 yards--as long as any of the shot actually landed on target.

[mumblemumble]

Crap. Good point I guess... =x

[Azba]

A wide array beam makes no sense for being so devastating. Think of it like a magnifying glass, it gets extremely hot because it's focused, but unfocusing it would be less effective. I honestly think having 1 mode with both severe, instant burns on a single pulse, and detonation on high damage would be effective.

I know it's been said before, but the thunderbuster is not a laser. Therefore the magnifying glass thing doesn't apply, because it's not focusing light.
Original fire mode produces lightning bolts, presumably using a similar method to how lightning works IRL - by focusing a bunch of negatively charged particles (behind the barrel of the gun???) toward a single point which is assumed to be positively charged (e.g. an Imp). Not sure how it manages to accomplish this - maybe by the pre-lightning burn-zaps forcing a huge positive charge on the target? - but when the connection is finally made with the negative end, all the energy blasts on through at once in a huge lightning bolt that blows up spectacularly at the other end (and presumably arcs to the other things nearby, but gameplay wise it's effectively an explosion)

For the alt fire however... I have no idea. Seems like it's basically toning back the primary fire's concentrated mode to settle on a series of smaller zaps, or maybe it's just producing little balls of plasma?

I don't think that last thing for a change in fire mode is such a great idea, much as I do like using the pre-fire as something like an entirely too hot laser pointer. Reason being it eliminates the TB's main drawback - that you need to hold it still in order to make it useful at all in primary mode.

[Bigger C]

I figured the scatter mode was some sort of microwave gun function. At any rate it sure roasts enemies good, so I'm stickin' with that name.

[Matt]

tbh I have no idea how this thing could work conceptually, as far as I know it literally magically teleports electrons to rev up a huge static discharge. Whatever it is, though, I imagine the alternate version (which doesn't really scatter anymore) to be designed to instantly trigger much smaller blasts immediately at the cost of efficiency.

(My original concept was in fact a laser but it got a bit mutated due to engine limitations)

[mumblemumble]

I honestly think a tao cannon type setup using a matrix of gasses drawn and separated from the air would work. Make make tritium out of the hydrogen in the air to fire hot blue balls of semi radioactive hot plasma that detonate on hit like a very small hydrogen bomb and larger ones make the traditional tb blast. I imagine properly ionized gasses could make a sort of "solid gas" due to a powerful ion field that closes the bubble with a sort of electrically enduced field that bends the gss into a semi solid state unless a really traumatic impact happens...

So basically a regular plasma rifle, firing plasma bubbles very similar to imp fireballs, extremely hot, but no fuel saturation, and a large burst of heat / explosive force when charged.

Besides original weapon WAS a plasma gun... And I'd think plasma would be good in this form against anything with heavy fire, even metal. Melting a cyberdemons circuits with enough small shots rapidly, or a few heavy shots. Besides a risk of meltdown of an energy weapon sounds very hd ish. It would also explain recoil, as an energy beam would be recoil less, but high velocity, high heat gas shooting out would be different. Tb, while interesting, doesn't stick too well to the "original doom but realistic" idea, on either side. And i think risking a catastrophic melt down would be interesting, similar to the scene of saving private ryan, and sticky bombs, except its melting legions of demons, with a risk of melting down for being too aggressive. Maybe even with a high energy cooling system that makes it more safe, at the cost of lower energy efficiency.

Edit : a rangefinder for a liberator gl when in gl mode would be very handy. Gls seem to need them, imo.

New destructible doors are.... Astounding. I honestly had no idea this was possible. They are very inconsistent, it feels like some arbitrary doors work more, some less, and angle, distance, all play factors. Dump 3 gravestones grow taller when shot, and also put a hole in the sky box so it's definitely very janky, but its too cool to care. Its funny how light cover like the first box in the range can be blown down, and breaking down a key door gives me a giant grin. If only we had a red faction style damaging, I'd probably lose my mind. Though for now, its pretty unreliable, close shots angled shots, ect, all seem to matter. The 2 doors on the red key loop in e1m2 don't even respond the same despite being identical. Don't get me wrong, i love it, but I'd like more consistent behavior. And possibly the tb or bfg ball doing that same effect. Either way, fantastic, those heat rockets have serious value now, and those darts are now disposable keys, seemingly.

[Fort of Hard Knox]

I agree with the Rocket weapons needing an RF. I also gotta say that the Thunderbuster feels way better now than it did if you tweaked it. If not then something must have been getting weird on my end and the split-fire seems to be the plasma thrower that I misseed

[potetobloke]

destructible doors

Wait, what? When? I'm already curious how this works.

[Matt]

destructible doors

Wait, what? When? I'm already curious how this works.

It basically does this:

1. check for any raised floor or lowered ceiling behind the hit line, and compares it to the height of the impact.
2. check the length of the line to ensure it is under a certain maximum (varies depending on the actor that hits).
3. check to see if a point beyond that impact point is still within that sector, to get an idea of how "thick" it is. (again varies depending on the actor - note that these are randomized)
4. if all of the above checks pass, lower the floor or raise the ceiling accordingly, fill in missing textures (and floor if applicable) with ASHWALL(2), and spawn debris and explosions.

I'm still working out some visual bugs (e.g., the raised ceiling being raised much too far and spawning too much debris).

Further, this cannot cover all possible situations - it won't work properly with 3D floors, midtexture blocking lines (e.g., the midair objects on some Boom-compatible maps) or thin walls that are made of one-sided linedefs. I might look into doing more with 3D floors, or at least mitigate the most egregious inconsistencies, but I don't think I'll be able to get that far with them.

[Caligari87]

I'm pretty sure traces can differentiate upper and lower linedefs/sidedefs. If that's the case, could something like this work?

Code: Select all

Did the trace hit an upper or lower linedef?
if so, is there a sector on the other side, and how thick is the sector between? (as you described)
if thin enough
    If lower linedef, lower floor to nearest or by some amount less than nearest
    if upper linedef, raise ceiling to nearest or by some amount less than nearest

That might help solve some problems

[Matt]

That's pretty much what I do right now. The problem is 3D floors and various methods that use something other than upper or lower lines to create an object sticking out of the ground or ceiling.

(That said, limiting the ceiling change to "some amount less than nearest" might be a good idea, given how ridiculously high some of these changes get)

[mumblemumble]

Is it remotely possible to add linedefs with this crazy feature, so for instance, we could tunnel through a wall with heat rounds, it making a hole approximately where hit? I honestly had no clue you could edit maps with scripts from a mod. So i admit i have no idea of the capabilities of this, or how hard it would be. Still, you've outdone yourself.

Speaking of 3d floors, they still don't allow full speed travel on them. Standing on one reduces to "unlevel ground" speed. It also seems lot of monsters get stuck on unlevel ground, perhaps they should get a little script where if they don't turn or move within a few tics while trying, they do a little "jump" to boost.


Spent shotgun shells spawned on maps endlessly spin.

Derps still seem kinda shy about firing, I'm not exactly sure what is wrong. They are picky compared to before. Also, isn't the derp only slightly heavier than a pistol? I'd think the fire rate would be slightly lower so it could maintain stability and accuracy. Only like a couple tics.