The Wayfarer: A 9-map Episode for Heretic (RC3 Released!)

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Re: The Wayfarer: A 9-map Episode for Heretic (RC3 Released!

Postby Sinael » Sun Dec 22, 2019 12:05 pm

Levels are good.
My only issue here is that Hellstaff new homing ability makes it often home in onto enemy before it actually has ability to reach it, which often steers it into a wall. Especially if the enemy is on the higher ground than you, then its almost guaranteed to hit the ledge instead of intended target.
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Re: The Wayfarer: A 9-map Episode for Heretic (RC3 Released!

Postby Not Jabba » Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:20 pm

Sinael wrote:Levels are good.
My only issue here is that Hellstaff new homing ability makes it often home in onto enemy before it actually has ability to reach it, which often steers it into a wall. Especially if the enemy is on the higher ground than you, then its almost guaranteed to hit the ledge instead of intended target.


(sorry for the late response)

Hey, thanks for the interest, and I'm glad you liked the maps. The Hellstaff's homing quirks are more or less intentional -- I spent a lot of time playing with different parameters, and it's actually about as precise as I was able to get it using Decorate's features for homing projectiles. Even so, I find that it borders on overpowered once you get used to it and I wouldn't want to make it more so; making it more of a general-use spray weapon (like the plasma rifle can be) would take away from its best strengths, and being able to shoot around corners or snipe whatever you want, wherever you want, would most likely make it very cheese-friendly. The original Hellstaff was completely redundant with the Dragon Claw (and other weapons), and I wanted to make it a specialty weapon with clear strengths and weaknesses; part of the intended purpose of the design is that you have to develop a sense of what you can easily hit with it and what you can't, and swap for other weapons when necessary (for instance, the Dragon Claw and Phoenix Rod are both still great for clearing turrets).

The new Hellstaff is really good at all of the following:
-Destroying any and all flying enemies with little effort
-Counteracting the knockback effect of enemies with low mass, making it easy to clean up strays
-Killing fast enemies that are hard to aim at, like the Serpent Keeper
-Locating ghost enemies or enemies in dark areas and destroying them without the need for better visibility or careful aiming
-Dealing with individual powerful enemies in a way that lets you focus on dodging rather than aiming, particularly Liches, Maulotaurs, and more powerful bosses
-Allowing you to spray and pray and continue to do damage while being thrown around by a Lich tornado
-"Metal detecting" to make sure you haven't missed any enemies in a large, complex area.

It is decent at:
-Spraying down groups of enemies and doing more damage faster than you can with the Crossbow or Dragon Claw, provided you don't care which enemies you hit first

It is bad at:
-Hitting turreted enemies
-Hitting priority targets at mid- to long distance if there are any other enemies around

Hopefully that helps a bit. Like the crossbow and the Lightbringer, it requires a bit of getting used to, but I think it's really worth it to have every weapon be useful in distinct ways.
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Re: The Wayfarer: A 9-map Episode for Heretic (RC3 Released!

Postby Lagi » Wed Oct 14, 2020 12:43 am

This maps are excellent. Also your changes to gameplay are very good.
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Re: The Wayfarer: A 9-map Episode for Heretic (RC3 Released!

Postby Lagi » Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:51 am

excellent maps, every next level is better than previous one.
Quite demanding combat wise. I love the hammer pickup- that make staff go berserk, I love melee combat, and its a great fun, especially that victim is push back - satisfaing. Also gauntlets (unTomed) are weapon of choice for 1vs1. Also crossbow is now melee weapon, because without the 4x side bolts on one target, damage is not sufficient.

Damage of all weapons seems to be improved, still the Heretic monster are too tough. You shooting and shooting same guy... while there is hundreds around.
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Re: The Wayfarer: A 9-map Episode for Heretic (RC3 Released!

Postby Lagi » Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:21 am

quick key item use code is buggy, here is working hourglass, ring and eggs (yes missing 2 )

Code: Select allExpand view
addkeysection "Heretic Artifacts" heretic_keysection
addmenukey "Quartz Flask" "use ArtiHealth"
addmenukey "Mystic Urn" "use ArtiSuperHealth"
addmenukey "Tome of Power" "use ArtiTomeOfPower"
addmenukey "Morph Ovum" "use ArtiEgg2"
addmenukey "Time Bomb of the Ancients" "use ArtiTimeBomb2"
addmenukey "Ring of Invincibility" "use ArtiInvulnerability2"
addmenukey "Shadowsphere" "use ArtiInvisibility"
addmenukey "Torch" "use ArtiTorch"
addmenukey "Wings of Wrath" "use ArtiFly"
addmenukey "Chaos Device" "use ArtiTeleport"
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Re: The Wayfarer: A 9-map Episode for Heretic (RC3 Released!

Postby Not Jabba » Fri Oct 23, 2020 10:32 pm

Thanks for the feedback, I'm glad you like it :)

I do know about the quick keys, and it's fixed in The Wayfarer's Tome. I've been working on an update to The Wayfarer that's mostly finished, and it will include the fix for the menu keys, but unfortunately I haven't had much time to spare for it.
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Re: The Wayfarer: A 9-map Episode for Heretic (RC3 Released!

Postby Lagi » Sat Oct 24, 2020 11:09 am

If they make another lockdown, I'm going to mod your mod. For sure I would reduce hp of every monster.

The guy with hammer is great add on, even if the move strangely fast. He looks like slower creature than sabreclaws f.ex.

Lesser serpent should be bigger, so you know its a tanky boss.

Utilization of eggs to instantly eliminate horde of monster is great.
Use of time bomb to kill turret monsters (come close to wall) is also excellent.

IMO hellstaff is just straight better weapon over Dragonclaw.
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Re: The Wayfarer: A 9-map Episode for Heretic (RC3 Released!

Postby Lagi » Sun Oct 25, 2020 11:30 am

so i beat stomping grounts. Nice level, but it expose all that i hate about heretic, sponges monster. Shooting make no sens, i use morph ovum to eliminate cluster of opponents. Also the boss fight with this Shao Khan looking guy (R..something), and brown serpent is "onerousness", also they have nice lesser serpent as turret support :/ . Its very unfair fight.

I lost my hope with next level however Onyx citadel. You spam serpents and ironlich like gargoyles. The Serpent Keeper kill me so many times I remember his name. All the new monster are even tougher than vanilla guys. Keeper can be transform into chicken so its not so bad.

im gonna look into the sandwich you make me eat now, how many hp did you give to this guys...
keeper 500!
green serpent 750

so ophidian has 280, and its considered way TOO tough.

brown serpent 3000
rocastus 2500
ok this 2x are like bosses, so whatever

----------
"they are not too tough, you are just noob"
great fun, running around shooting and not killing anything. You could limit arsenal only to Morh Ovum, the gameplay would not differ too much.

==============
levels are dope anyway.

ahaa.... i would forgot
your sunshine stick (the mace replacement) are consuming 5x ammo per shot!!! its useless.

Imo sun stick should use crystal, so gold wand ammo would have some use

=============================
I beat the last level.
there is not enough supplies for pistol start. In the starting location in this corner rooms could be store some items, TomeOfPower and more MysticUrn.

hmm... from stomping ground, onyx citadel, and the last level (forget the name)... this levels are not so fun as the first one. Mostly because they are combat heavy, and you dont have efficient arsenal to deal with all the hordes of monster (onyx citadel last switch is most intense fight i ever have... a good one). Lightbringer tomed shot is great, and you can have morph ovum as "weapon" that kill, instead pat the monsters. Rocus arena fight is a bad fight, its just quicksave till you nail each move - combat puzzle.

I will reduce the monsters hp across the board, reduce ammo pickups for crossbow(+3/+10) and wand(+5/+20), fix Lightbringer ammo per shot, increase Hourglass radious... and play this again, great levels sir.

===================
bug in the code:
staff use meleerange, but this is the function that increase melee range of monsters, not weapon. So the staff is still using the vanilla range (44?).

should be:
STFF N 6 A_CustomPunch((random(15,20)),true,0,"StaffPuff",105)

105 is the range

i increase
gold wand damage 7,8 > 7,18
staff damage 5,20 > 15,30
i give clink more speed, still experimenting but 25 ! is not so OP, i reduce his HP.

all gargoyle 40hp
all golems 80 hp... golem is too slow. I Gave melee golems 20 speed, its more fun
all knight 145 .... he need more hp, i would try 160. 160 is better, feel tougher.
disciple 80 .... ok
sabreclaw 100 ... need more dmg [ i multiply his dmg *2 - work similar like golem f.ex]. work as fast 25, but fragile.
weredrag 220 ... more hp would try 300. ok, he is tanky
ophidian 140 ... more hp would try 180. ok

gate keeper 300 hp
green serpent 350 hp

not sure if this is the intension, but knightghost has 200 hp, because he take stats from Knight, not a Knight2.

---
ed:
i add no alarm to staff, its a quiet killing weapon now. works great.
i remove wimpy weapon from staff and gauntlet. 1slot weapons are solid.

time bomb with 160 dmg and 192 range is ok, little too powerfull, maybe i need to keep original dmg?

i hate using dragon claw, i think i would replace it with Mace (i also use the fixed Mace sprites)

tyson power up, could replace staff with other melee weapon.

I think i would boost clink dmg a little, becase he hurt very little compare to other monsters.

lightbringer using crystal ammo is ok (consume 5 and 15 tome).

crystal +5/20 and bolts +3/+10 modified ammo, work well. I finally run out of ammo.

is it not possible to add new episode to the starting list?

i think i would add alt fires:
staff - thrust, to push monster back, long range 150, (swing 100 range), less dmg than swing
gauntlet - punch, more dmg than shock, but lower dps - finisher.
wand, hellstaff, phenix, lightbringer - staff swing
xbow - railgun shot
...
i would replace Claw, with Mace, and add mace swing. no hit scan weapon?! - good.

tyson would be hammer from hexen (even the pickup icon is the same, i think that was the idea). Powered hammer would burn.
Last edited by Lagi on Tue Oct 27, 2020 3:42 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: The Wayfarer: A 9-map Episode for Heretic (RC3 Released!

Postby Not Jabba » Mon Oct 26, 2020 4:25 pm

Lagi wrote:bug in the code:
staff use meleerange, but this is the function that increase melee range of monsters, not weapon. So the staff is still using the vanilla range (44?).


Is this a new change to how GZDoom handles Decorate? It was working as intended last time I played it.
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Re: The Wayfarer: A 9-map Episode for Heretic (RC3 Released!

Postby Lagi » Mon Oct 26, 2020 4:50 pm

as far as i remember (i start modding before christmas 2019) it always work like that.
hmm... i even check your code and gave 1500 meleerange to staff, but it didnt work.
unless im stupid ofc, and I dont know something.
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Re: The Wayfarer: A 9-map Episode for Heretic (RC3 Released!

Postby Not Jabba » Mon Oct 26, 2020 4:54 pm

No, you're probably right. There's no way 150 is the right range anyway, that's huge. I was messing with the damage and range changes at the same time, and it probably just felt like it was reaching farther and hitting better because it was killing enemies more efficiently. I'll fix it in the update, and do the same for Wayfarer's Tome.
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Re: The Wayfarer: A 9-map Episode for Heretic (RC3 Released!

Postby Lagi » Mon Oct 26, 2020 4:59 pm

i just check with 105 range, feel more like it. yess, 150 its too much, if we looking for realism. But its more fun, and staff has edge over gauntlets.
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Re: The Wayfarer: A 9-map Episode for Heretic (RC3 Released!

Postby Lagi » Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:38 am

Lightbringer sun projectile behavior is buggy.

Projectile disappear when hit the monster. It cannot even 1shot kill golem.

dmg Damage (2*Random(21, 24)) is probably ok, if the Ripper flag would work. Heretic and Hexen bounce flag, make it somehow malfunction. I would investigate tonight.

solution work like charm:
add +BOUNCEONACTORS
Code: Select allExpand view
Actor SunProjectile
{
  Radius 16
  Height 8
  Damage (2*Random(21, 24))
  Alpha 1.0
  Scale 1.25
  Renderstyle Add
  BounceFactor 1.0
  Projectile
  +Ripper
  +HereticBounce
  +BloodlessImpact
  +CanBounceWater
  +ForceXYBillboard
  -BloodSplatter
  +HexenBounce
  +BOUNCEONACTORS
  speed 60
  Reactiontime 100
  SeeSound "Weapons/Lightbringer/Bounce"
  States
  {
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Re: The Wayfarer: A 9-map Episode for Heretic (RC3 Released!

Postby Not Jabba » Tue Oct 27, 2020 4:06 pm

Yes, that one is also known and is fixed in The Wayfarer's Tome. The episode was originally designed to target the last build of ZDoom, but GZDoom has changed some stuff since then. It will be fixed in the Wayfarer update.
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