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Re: Heretic Upstart Mapping Project [Community Project]

PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:36 am
by Hellser
Graf Zahl wrote:It's a fact that due to its limited texture set Heretic is probably the hardest to map for of the Doom engine games. Give this to a skilled mapper and you may get good results (e.g. Chris Lutz has done some amazing work with the original texture set) But this requires quite some skill in detailing a level to make it look good. But where in Doom, Hexen or Strife you may get away with clever use of textures, that's nearly impossible with Heretic's garish looking stock set. I personally find the original levels mostly unpleasant to look at, especially the later episodes.


To which I agree save for the latter point. I personally enjoy Heretic's style. But you are right that Heretic is probably the hardest to map for. Where as Doom sort of goes for this abstract-like design, Heretic goes for a hint of realism. The fact that it only has a handful of textures makes it even harder to convincingly produce something recognizable to what the mapper intends.

Try playing Episode 1 and name the maps according to what you see rather than what's on the automap / intermission. Then go back and look at the names. I personally went ".. yeah, I can see that being some docks. Or some dungeons."

Re: Heretic Upstart Mapping Project [Community Project]

PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:00 am
by Ichor
The earlier maps will be a challenge (if you're following the original Heretic theme) because you won't have access to some of the textures used in later maps. Still, it is possible to come up with some interesting and fun designs. Also, you can come up with some good gameplay as well. I made a map using the episode 1 theme a long time ago that uses only 2-3 new textures that really isn't vital to the map (a bit of red carpet and a iron lich icon at the end), but I like how it turned out. I even still play it on occasion. So it's definitely possible to make good maps with just the defaults.

I would join in on this, but I have my own project that I'm really concentrating on. I've been putting that off for far too long and I would very much like to get something done.

Re: Heretic Upstart Mapping Project [Community Project]

PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:29 pm
by HexenMapper
Ichor wrote:The earlier maps will be a challenge (if you're following the original Heretic theme) because you won't have access to some of the textures


We have no limitations on theme for this project, so people have free reign to go nuts using whichever textures they like. I'm hoping this will allow each mapper quite a bit of variety within the '99 textures, 66 flats' of heretic. Already we're seeing some very cool looking screenshots coming through the discord.

Re: Heretic Upstart Mapping Project [Community Project]

PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:50 pm
by Voltcom9
I really like this project already! It's always exciting when new Heretic community projects pop up. I really wish you'd allow mapping in UDMF though.

Re: Heretic Upstart Mapping Project [Community Project]

PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 5:41 am
by HexenMapper
Project is coming along nicely, currently have 23 mappers!

Here's some of our WIP screenshots from the various authors:
Spoiler:

Re: Heretic Upstart Mapping Project [Community Project]

PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:47 am
by Rachael
Those screenshots are looking really really good. :)

Re: Heretic Upstart Mapping Project [Community Project]

PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:57 am
by Ichor
The only thing I would change in any of those shots is in the ninth shot (the red carpeted stairs). I would shift the carpet over slightly so it doesn't go to the very edges of the stairs, leaving a wooden area of about 8-16 units on either side of the steps.

Re: Heretic Upstart Mapping Project [Community Project]

PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:40 am
by HexenMapper
Ichor wrote:The only thing I would change in any of those shots is in the ninth shot (the red carpeted stairs). I would shift the carpet over slightly so it doesn't go to the very edges of the stairs, leaving a wooden area of about 8-16 units on either side of the steps.


Good idea, I passed it on to the author of that map :)

Rachael wrote:Those screenshots are looking really really good. :)


Thanks Rachel, we should end up with some very fun and varied heretic maps. I watched a demo of one of the maps today that was 41 minutes long so there will definitely be some lengthy maps to sink your teeth into!

Re: Heretic Upstart Mapping Project [Community Project]

PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:19 am
by jmtd
Graf Zahl wrote:I think Heretic's texture set is pretty limited and requires some very skilled mappers to produce good output. So I won't expect much from a project like this. Moreover, the limitations in visual design make Heretic levels look old very, very quickly.


The texture set is indeed limited. One upshot of that, for me, was it was less intimidating to get started on producing something without getting lost in texture choice decisions. That said, whilst mapping, I had in the back of my mind this comment of yours about Heretic maps looking very similar, and I tried to make something that would stand out. I hope you give the finished WAD a try, I think there are some really nice surprises in it.

Re: Heretic Upstart Mapping Project [Community Project]

PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:43 pm
by HexenMapper
Ok We've reached the deadline and have done a brief alpha stage of testing, so here is the latest alpha if people want to have a play and fool around:

16 maps so far, 2 full episodes, without secret maps.

HUMP ALPHA:
http://www.mediafire.com/file/591nan52n ... _ALPHA.zip

Enjoy!

We would love to hear any comments / bug reports or feedback

Re: Heretic Upstart Mapping Project [ALPHA RELEASED]

PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 11:36 pm
by HexenMapper
We've done an update of the Alpha (link is the same, posted in the OP or above)
E1 should be mostly fine now and supports co-op for 4 players, we'll start looking at E2 next.

Updated the OP with some screenshots too.

Re: Heretic Upstart Mapping Project [ALPHA RELEASED]

PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 2:42 am
by Jimmy
I'm enjoying these maps so far, up to E1M5 now. They've been pretty solidly designed so far.

Please put some lights in the darkest sections of E1M4, since I spent a good portion of that map fumbling around in the pitch dark, around barrels that obviously don't show up on the automap. I fared okay but it was still kind of awkward.

Re: Heretic Upstart Mapping Project [ALPHA RELEASED]

PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:37 am
by HexenMapper
Jimmy wrote:I'm enjoying these maps so far, up to E1M5 now. They've been pretty solidly designed so far.

Please put some lights in the darkest sections of E1M4, since I spent a good portion of that map fumbling around in the pitch dark, around barrels that obviously don't show up on the automap. I fared okay but it was still kind of awkward.


Hmm I found the darkness to be about right on that map. Its supposed to be a very dark creepy mine after all :) You should still be able to see a few feet in front of you even in the darkest sections, which is usually enough to find your way around.
Thanks for the feedback though, hope you enjoy the rest of the mapset!

Original heretic had some very dark areas, although they often provided torches to deal with them

Re: Heretic Upstart Mapping Project [Community Project]

PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 6:41 am
by The Ultimate DooMer
Ichor wrote:I would join in on this, but I have my own project that I'm really concentrating on. I've been putting that off for far too long and I would very much like to get something done.


Does that mean Fury is getting finished?

Re: Heretic Upstart Mapping Project [Community Project]

PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:21 am
by Ichor
The Ultimate DooMer wrote:
Ichor wrote:I would join in on this, but I have my own project that I'm really concentrating on. I've been putting that off for far too long and I would very much like to get something done.


Does that mean Fury is getting finished?

It is being worked on, yes. It's taking a long time because maps take a while to make and I don't have that much in the way of free time. I do what I can when I have the time, and I have a general plan on the remaining hubs.