Heretic Upstart Mapping Project [RELEASED]

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Heretic Upstart Mapping Project [RELEASED]

Postby HexenMapper » Mon Aug 21, 2017 7:03 am

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Pastebin with Map layout and credits:
https://pastebin.com/yxDTQaav

GET HUMP HERE:         (current version 1.666)
https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/levels/heretic/Ports/hump
-Runs in zdoom or GZDoom with the heretic.wad (registered version - shadow of the serpent riders)

Screenshots:
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Original Post and Rules:
Spoiler:


HUMP mappers:
Spoiler:


Last edited by HexenMapper on Fri Oct 20, 2017 9:37 pm, edited 43 times in total.
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Re: Heretic Upstart Mapping Project [Community Project]

Postby Mikk- » Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:34 am

Okay this is definitely something I'm interested in. I'm all for more Heretic stuff!!
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Re: Heretic Upstart Mapping Project [Community Project]

Postby HexenMapper » Mon Aug 21, 2017 1:29 pm

Great! should be fun to try something different and with a somewhat limited palette of textures :)
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Re: Heretic Upstart Mapping Project [Community Project]

Postby The Ultimate DooMer » Mon Aug 21, 2017 4:35 pm

It would be nice to see ZDoom features allowed though...that's what made DUMP stand out from the 1000 other community projects around.
(I'd still restrict it to vanilla graphics/monsters/weapons etc. though)
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Re: Heretic Upstart Mapping Project [Community Project]

Postby HexenMapper » Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:45 pm

The Ultimate DooMer wrote:It would be nice to see ZDoom features allowed though...that's what made DUMP stand out from the 1000 other community projects around.
(I'd still restrict it to vanilla graphics/monsters/weapons etc. though)


I don't think we really need anything to make this stand out - just the fact that we will end up with a bunch of new heretic maps should be enough :)

I would like to keep it as vanilla as possible to allow people to focus on map design. Plus a lot of the zdoom features like polyobjects I would prefer to save for a Hexen project. We'll do Heretic first, and then Hexen some other time, as it takes a lot more planning (especially if we want to make a coherent hub or two), and can require ACS, polyobjects and a few other zdoom-esque specials

Also I would like to say I thought your Serpent: Resurrection was fantastic - I often think about the sound effects and city from the first few areas. Amazing stuff. Great to see the heretic door sounds and the hexen II message sounds in the same mod.
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Re: Heretic Upstart Mapping Project [Community Project]

Postby HexenMapper » Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:40 am

And we begin. Good luck to everyone who has joined, we have 19 mappers at the moment (full list in the OP).
Look forward to seeing what you all come up with!

Feel free to post wads here or in the discord for playtesting and feedback
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Re: Heretic Upstart Mapping Project [Community Project]

Postby Rachael » Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:13 am

In my personal opinion, Heretic textures are rather limited. I would consider at the very least allowing Baker's Legacy, even if you allow no other custom textures whatsoever.
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Re: Heretic Upstart Mapping Project [Community Project]

Postby HexenMapper » Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:55 am

Rachael wrote:In my personal opinion, Heretic textures are rather limited. I would consider at the very least allowing Baker's Legacy, even if you allow no other custom textures whatsoever.


The textures are definitely limited compared to doom or hexen (no grass flat!), but that's part of the challenge - try to get creative with vanilla textures, weapons, enemies and line actions. If it's good enough for raven, it's good enough for us. Sometimes less options allow you to work more on gameplay and map design and I'm hoping using straight-up vanilla heretic (albeit limit-removing) will encourage that.

If there is a HUMP2, I would definitely add more textures and probably do full zdoom features and ACS. I am familiar with Baker's Legacy and usually keep an eye out for heretic/hexen textures and sprites. Baker's Legacy would likely be the one we include if we were to choose a single extra texture pack.
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Re: Heretic Upstart Mapping Project [Community Project]

Postby Graf Zahl » Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:58 am

I think Heretic's texture set is pretty limited and requires some very skilled mappers to produce good output. So I won't expect much from a project like this. Moreover, the limitations in visual design make Heretic levels look old very, very quickly.
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Re: Heretic Upstart Mapping Project [Community Project]

Postby Rachael » Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:19 am

HexenMapper wrote:The textures are definitely limited compared to doom or hexen (no grass flat!), but that's part of the challenge - try to get creative with vanilla textures, weapons, enemies and line actions. If it's good enough for raven, it's good enough for us.

That may well be, but remember that game designers start with a lot more assets than they actually publish. This was true of id Software for Doom (some previously unreleased assets were later released), and you can be pretty sure it is true for Heretic, as well.

But - your project, your rules. :)
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Re: Heretic Upstart Mapping Project [Community Project]

Postby Hellser » Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:53 pm

I'm looking forward to this. I wish all the mappers luck in this project!
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Re: Heretic Upstart Mapping Project [Community Project]

Postby Rachael » Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:56 pm

As do I. :)
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Re: Heretic Upstart Mapping Project [Community Project]

Postby leodoom85 » Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:27 pm

The mappers will find creative ways of doing the maps regardless of the limitations (considering that this one will be at vanilla format)
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Re: Heretic Upstart Mapping Project [Community Project]

Postby HexenMapper » Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:29 am

leodoom85 wrote:The mappers will find creative ways of doing the maps regardless of the limitations (considering that this one will be at vanilla format)


They already have! some things never seen in original Heretic - and looking like a lot of fun. I won't spoil what they are, but people are definitely getting creative. The textures may be limited, but you can still get great contrasts and it forces you to focus more on design rather than relying on texture use. A good exercise in textural minimalism and more 'pure' gameplay design.

Graf Zahl wrote:I won't expect much from a project like this


Such a wellspring of positivity, glad to hear your ringing endorsement :D
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Re: Heretic Upstart Mapping Project [Community Project]

Postby Graf Zahl » Tue Aug 29, 2017 2:15 am

HexenMapper wrote:Such a wellspring of positivity, glad to hear your ringing endorsement :D



It's a fact that due to its limited texture set Heretic is probably the hardest to map for of the Doom engine games. Give this to a skilled mapper and you may get good results (e.g. Chris Lutz has done some amazing work with the original texture set) But this requires quite some skill in detailing a level to make it look good. But where in Doom, Hexen or Strife you may get away with clever use of textures, that's nearly impossible with Heretic's garish looking stock set. I personally find the original levels mostly unpleasant to look at, especially the later episodes.
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