Doom 2 The Way id Did: Released!

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Re: Doom 2 The Way id Did: Released!

Postby edward850 » Sun Dec 22, 2013 9:09 pm

Hornetzero wrote: but since this was intended for Gzdoom,

We are talking about this wad, right? Because I'm interested as to why you seem to think this.
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Re: Doom 2 The Way id Did: Released!

Postby Bitterman » Sun Dec 22, 2013 9:13 pm

TheMightyHeracross wrote:It wouldn't be Strife, then, would it? Strife isn't a full-out run-and-gun shooter like Doom.
And I Strife's gameplay is very fun, what makes it boring? The only time I remember being bored was the Sewers, but that was from being lost, and I know my way now.

I would say the combat was okay, but it lacked. The sewers were fatally boring and painful, I'm surprised how I even got past it.
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Re: Doom 2 The Way id Did: Released!

Postby Csonicgo » Sun Dec 22, 2013 10:34 pm

Hornetzero wrote:but since this was intended for Gzdoom


:|

I can't respond to that. I'm starting to think you're trolling, because this PWAD was made for Vanilla Doom.

And ambushes, especially of the teleporter/trap door variety, are classic Doom. If your weapons mod makes ambushes harder, then blame the mod, not the mapset.
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Re: Doom 2 The Way id Did: Released!

Postby Hornetzero » Sun Dec 22, 2013 11:00 pm

:|

I can't respond to that. I'm starting to think you're trolling, because this PWAD was made for Vanilla Doom.


Look old man... this is the "Zdoom" forum. Gzdoom IS zdoom, and since the creator put this upfront here without any specific claim to how it should be played, and the fact that around 80% or more of this forum uses Gzdoom, It should go without saying that this has Gzdoom as one of its intended platforms.

And ambushes, especially of the teleporter/trap door variety, are classic Doom. If your weapons mod makes ambushes harder, then blame the mod, not the mapset.


First off, call that weapon mod by what it is, i.e. "BRUTAL DOOM SE".

Second, I don't recall such ambushes even in Doom 2. Name me one instance of such a scenario. What I do recall in the original Doom 2, are cool things like the Spider mastermind vs Cyberdemon fight in Gotcha and the memorable Cyberdemon slaughtering Barons left and right in Tricks and Traps. There are probably even more of those, but I can't recall all of them at the moment. What I can tell you is that they are not present in this mod, and hence, this map set kinda misses that unique Doom 2 special feel that was present in a handful of maps in the original D2.

Third, Brutal Doom SE has ways to compensate for most of the raise in difficulty. The grenade alternate from the rocket launcher comes to mind, along with the Mancubus "mortar" bomb that easily burns anything standing on any plane in game. Vanilla Doom doesn't have any of that, so the player is still likely to get his ass kicked in most of these traps.
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Re: Doom 2 The Way id Did: Released!

Postby Scripten » Sun Dec 22, 2013 11:16 pm

Hornetzero wrote:Look old man... this is the "Zdoom" forum. Gzdoom IS zdoom, and since the creator put this upfront here without any specific claim to how it should be played, and the fact that around 80% or more of this forum uses Gzdoom, It should go without saying that this has Gzdoom as one of its intended platforms.


Either the ignorance or the troll is strong in this one. *Grabs the popcorn*
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Re: Doom 2 The Way id Did: Released!

Postby esselfortium » Sun Dec 22, 2013 11:20 pm

D2TWID is a vanilla Doom project. Given the project's goal, there was no other possible target port. It was designed for vanilla (and of course Chocolate Doom) first and foremost. Of course you can play it in ZDoom, but the same goes for virtually any other vanilla wad. That obviously doesn't mean that any of those wads were intended for jumping, crouching, or any other ZDoom features.

Hornetzero wrote:Second, I don't recall such ambushes even in Doom 2. Name me one instance of such a scenario.

The first one that comes to mind for me is when The Factory teleports you into a tiny space surrounded by four imps with no warning. Doom 2 definitely has this stuff -- that's the reason we put it in D2TWID.
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Re: Doom 2 The Way id Did: Released!

Postby wildweasel » Sun Dec 22, 2013 11:23 pm

Hornetzero wrote:Look old man... this is the "Zdoom" forum. Gzdoom IS zdoom, and since the creator put this upfront here without any specific claim to how it should be played, and the fact that around 80% or more of this forum uses Gzdoom, It should go without saying that this has Gzdoom as one of its intended platforms.

Not necessarily. This forum may be called "ZDoom" but there are no hard rules stating that people may not post WADs for vanilla or other source ports. Back to Saturn X was posted here. Samsara was posted here, and that primarily targets Zandronum, last I recall hearing.

You are being far too aggressive in "defending" yourself here. I would like to kindly suggest you back off.
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Re: Doom 2 The Way id Did: Released!

Postby Xaser » Sun Dec 22, 2013 11:23 pm

Hornetzero wrote:Look old man... this is the "Zdoom" forum. Gzdoom IS zdoom, and since the creator put this upfront here without any specific claim to how it should be played, and the fact that around 80% or more of this forum uses Gzdoom, It should go without saying that this has Gzdoom as one of its intended platforms.

Are you trying to imply that if a wad is posted on ZDF, it's required to be Brutal Doom-compatible?

If so, I suppose that transitively means that it's also required to be compatible with any mod, meaning I ought to also be able to play it with Hideous Destructor and AEons of Death as well as BD. But wait, if any mod is supposed to be compatible with any other mod, wouldn't Hideous Destructor have to be compatible with AEoD? And wouldn't...

Shit, now I gotta go make NecroDoom compatible with Project MSX and Russian Overkill. Be back in a few weeks...
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Re: Doom 2 The Way id Did: Released!

Postby Marnetmar » Sun Dec 22, 2013 11:33 pm

I just wanted you all to know that I love each and every one of you <3
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Re: Doom 2 The Way id Did: Released!

Postby Hornetzero » Mon Dec 23, 2013 12:23 am

D2TWID is a vanilla Doom project. Given the project's goal, there was no other possible target port. It was designed for vanilla (and of course Chocolate Doom) first and foremost. Of course you can play it in ZDoom, but the same goes for virtually any other vanilla wad. That obviously doesn't mean that any of those wads were intended for jumping, crouching, or any other ZDoom features.


In that case,my score for this goes from 8/10 to an "intended" 5/10. Sorry, but all things said and done, that's my conclusive opinion. I'm just not that old-school.

The first one that comes to mind for me is when The Factory teleports you into a tiny space surrounded by four imps with no warning. Doom 2 definitely has this stuff -- that's the reason we put it in D2TWID.


Well then, great job, upgrading that feature into something even more challenging. You have definitely made it harder than it use to be (with or without mods).
Not necessarily. This forum may be called "ZDoom" but there are no hard rules stating that people may not post WADs for vanilla or other source ports. Back to Saturn X was posted here. Samsara was posted here, and that primarily targets Zandronum, last I recall hearing.

You are being far too aggressive in "defending" yourself here. I would like to kindly suggest you back off.


Fine. But the same should go for Ghostbreed-esque troll posts like this one:

Either the ignorance or the troll is strong in this one. *Grabs the popcorn*


Are you trying to imply that if a wad is posted on ZDF, it's required to be Brutal Doom-compatible?

If so, I suppose that transitively means that it's also required to be compatible with any mod, meaning I ought to also be able to play it with Hideous Destructor and AEons of Death as well as BD. But wait, if any mod is supposed to be compatible with any other mod, wouldn't Hideous Destructor have to be compatible with AEoD? And wouldn't...

Shit, now I gotta go make NecroDoom compatible with Project MSX and Russian Overkill. Be back in a few weeks...


I did not say that. Gzdoom doesn't really count as a mod, but more so as an upgraded engine.
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Re: Doom 2 The Way id Did: Released!

Postby wildweasel » Mon Dec 23, 2013 12:26 am

Hornetzero wrote:Fine. But the same should go for Ghostbreed-esque troll posts like this one:

Either the ignorance or the troll is strong in this one. *Grabs the popcorn*


Sorry, but I don't concur with your viewpoint here.
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Re: Doom 2 The Way id Did: Released!

Postby Freya Mánibrandr » Mon Dec 23, 2013 1:03 am

HornetZero, first off, you shouldn't judge a mapset by how it plays with a mod, especially with mods that have no respect for vanilla doom balance like Brutal Dumb. Secondly, you knew that you're stepping on a few toes by making those posts, I can tell that you're aware of the shit you're flinging here, what did you expect as a response and what do you hope to accomplish by acting like an immature child when someone calls you out on your BS? Finally, you're wrong. What kind of Doom 2 have you been playing? Doom has always been about Tricks and Traps.

I also should point out that in accusing others of being like Ghostbreed-esque, you're being a Ghostbreed-tier troll yourself. You might want to back off from this thread if you're not fond of the idea of taking a vacation from this forums.
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Re: Doom 2 The Way id Did: Released!

Postby Xaser » Mon Dec 23, 2013 1:32 am

@Hornetzero: I see you've missed/ignored the legitimate question I had in my post. The rest of it, though obviously satirical, is a logical continuation of that fact given that the answer is "yes," which all evidence points to at the moment. Either you meant something else and we ought to clarify what it is, or I'll have to conclude that you're really pulling for me to finish that Pirate Doom compatibility patch for Psychic.


[Though now that I say this, that might not be all too terrible of an idea given that Pirate Doom is pretty rockin'. Fittingness of the mod aside, of course...]
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Re: Doom 2 The Way id Did: Released!

Postby twinkieman93 » Mon Dec 23, 2013 2:05 am

Xaser wrote:@Hornetzero: I see you've missed/ignored the legitimate question I had in my post. The rest of it, though obviously satirical, is a logical continuation of that fact given that the answer is "yes," which all evidence points to at the moment. Either you meant something else and we ought to clarify what it is, or I'll have to conclude that you're really pulling for me to finish that Pirate Doom compatibility patch for Psychic.


[Though now that I say this, that might not be all too terrible of an idea given that Pirate Doom is pretty rockin'. Fittingness of the mod aside, of course...]

Psychic goes with everything because if it doesn't feel like it should work, you can just say it's a fever dream brought on by the flagrant abuse of psionic powers and demonic artifacts the protagonist engages in.

In any case, let me throw my hat into the ring here by saying this: Hornet, you are far out of your depth. Nobody else in this thread had said anything that is remotely in agreement with anything you've said, and mods have posted twice now. When you see a mod appear in an argument, they're there with their hammer in hand, and they're itchin' to bust some kneecaps. You haven't gotten any actual warnings yet, but you don't have to get warned before you get banned. Food for thought right there.

Can't you see that even if you firmly believe in what you're posting, not a single person has chimed in on YOUR side of this petty squabble? It's okay to speak your mind, but when it becomes clear that no one else's mind is speaking the same thing, you need to just stop posting. Cowardly? Maybe. But failure to recognize when it's time to cut your losses and run has gotten many people banned, if not immediately, then eventually.
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Re: Doom 2 The Way id Did: Released!

Postby wildweasel » Mon Dec 23, 2013 10:07 am

You're a little bit off the mark, Twinkie. The problem here is not what hornet is declaring as his opinion, it is how he is choosing to argue for it. I'm not about to tell anybody that they're not allowed to say that a set of maps is too hard for them, but what I don't like seeing is when people decide to be jerks about it. The reason I haven't issued any formal warnings yet is because, well, it hasn't really gotten that bad in here yet, compared to other instances I've seen.

So, no, nobody's on the fast track to a ban just yet. I'll let you know if you're close.
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