[Project] "Knee-Deep in ZDoom"

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Postby Risen » Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:57 am

E1M6:
Not bad. It's a little buggy, I saw some missing textures, and a lot of misalignments. The traps don't have the bite they used to, it's very easy to avoid almost every trap that has been set for the player. Part of this is because they are not changed much, part is because the changes defeat the trap, and part is because the traps are so well known that anyone can disarm them. I was hoping for a little more variety in the gameplay, it was still a lot of grab the key, find the door, plus my normal route through E1M6 took me directly through the map as it would have otherwise. There were no real detours, no traffic rerouting, etc. with the exception of one new area. Even the 'activate power' script area was only a short walk to another console. On the positive, some of the detailed areas were very nice indeed, I wish this level of detail were carried out through the entire map.

E1M9:
The first thing I did was MDK the cyberdemon. After that, I really enjoyed the converted part of the map. The detailing was good, the gameplay variations were nice. The nukage pool by the imps on pillars doesn't hurt you, is that intentional? If it's not going to hurt, it should be water. The new areas to thins map disappointed me. I expected the same style of play as the rest of the map, but instead there were largely flat areas, and the monsters were a chore to take out since there were so many and they took so much ammo. They didn't seem to fit with the rest of the map at all. The map has a few rough edges, if you stand on the edge of a multi-sectored lift then it can get all messed up, the elevator had a bad habit of getting things stuck in it, there are some items placed in unreachable areas.

There are many different methods used to make the underwater areas colors. I've seen blengs, fog and colored light! Personally I like the blend approach best. One of the things we should do is decide on a method and stick with it all the way through.

Sorry to everyone if I sound more negative than positive, from my years in school and being a perfectionist I'm very critical of work. You should not take it personally. At this stage I'm doing everything I can to make sure this project shines when it is done. After that comes the praise.

cccp_leha wrote:Oh yeah, I'm hogging E1M1 again. So there! :P (that is if no one minds)


Maybe taking one map for a while would be good, but I think we should get time with all of them, or at least 3 or 4 at once so we can make things flow across the maps rather than individually.
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Postby NiGHTMARE » Sat Oct 09, 2004 1:58 pm

So, the maps we're still waiting on are now e1m1, e1m2 and e1m8?
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Postby Graf Zahl » Sat Oct 09, 2004 2:24 pm

Risen wrote:E1M9:
The first thing I did was MDK the cyberdemon.



It should definitely be removed. In that particular place it totally ruins the map.
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Postby Tormentor667 » Sat Oct 09, 2004 3:06 pm

NiGHTMARE wrote:So, the maps we're still waiting on are now e1m1, e1m2 and e1m8?

Exactly!

The problems that exists with E1M6 is, that 1st: The level of detail is very very low and 2nd: It still looks too much like it's original! We really have to work on that one very hard in round 2! For E1M9 I am pleased with the original part of the thing but I am very sad in how the rest of the map turned out: We should try to keep the level of detail and also remove this huge amount of bugs and the really atmosphere destroying ending part of that whole thing (the street, the bad tanks, etc).
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Postby GeeDougg » Sat Oct 09, 2004 3:20 pm

Woolie Wool wrote:You also have the new BMW 5 Series as your avatar, so your aesthetic judgement is already suspect.

Um, you know it's not like I think my taste or judgement is better than other people's or that people who don't agree with my taste or opinion are automatically evil or stupid, but it sounds like you DON'T like the new 5 series (which could mean that your judgement is not only suspect, but probably impaired too) and yet YOU are saying that MY aesthetic judgement is suspect? WTF? The BMW 5 series is gorgeous, and BTW that pic isn't of just any ol' regular 525i or anything; it's the M5. And some people happen to dislike the new 5 but most people seem to like it and especially in M5 form. But if you were being serious I think it's stupid to say that my aesthetic judgement is "suspect" when it comes to graphics just because I like a car that you don't find beautiful. :roll:
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Postby Nmn » Sat Oct 09, 2004 3:52 pm

Geedoug-Plz, no off-topic talking in this project's thread >:(

Rest: I'm not really keen on putting in gameplay but one thing for sure-I love architecture and atmosphere. Someone give me a quick breakdown of my tasks in this round 2 mkay? I've been having a really f****ng day and I need things straight on my table to work on :)
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Postby GeeDougg » Sat Oct 09, 2004 3:59 pm

Sorry NMN I was gonna place an "Edit:" and spologize for derailing the discussion because I couldn't just let that go. That irritated me and I had to answer. I apologize, and I apologize for forgetting to apologize.

Now back to the original topic of the thread....

NMN: If you're looking for something to do then why not tackle the job of improving the detail in E1M6? Or is that even allowed?
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Postby Risen » Sat Oct 09, 2004 4:20 pm

Torm, will you be posting E1M3?
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Postby cyber-menace » Sat Oct 09, 2004 5:13 pm

Tormentor667 wrote:the really atmosphere destroying ending part of that whole thing (the street, the bad tanks, etc).

Grrrrr... I try a new idea and all I get are complaints... you could at least fit them in somehow... it IS a military complex. It SHOULD have weapons of mass destruction laying around I mean COME ON!
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Postby Risen » Sat Oct 09, 2004 5:16 pm

I don't dislike the idea, in fact the rockets flying everywhere are a new and different trap and that much I did like. However, the atmosphere between that and the rest of the level is too different.
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Postby Graf Zahl » Sat Oct 09, 2004 5:17 pm

Maybe. But there are some significant problems with that outside area:

1. It doesn't look remotely like E1
2. The end feels totally disconnected from the following map.
3. E1 doesn't have large outside areas that aren't secrets.

Bottom line: It feels out of place.
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Postby cyber-menace » Sat Oct 09, 2004 5:52 pm

Graf Zahl wrote:Maybe. But there are some significant problems with that outside area:

1. It doesn't look remotely like E1
2. The end feels totally disconnected from the following map.
3. E1 doesn't have large outside areas that aren't secrets.

Bottom line: It feels out of place.

Ok, it was mainly the way that Tormentor worded it that ticked me off. No offence Tormentor, but that was probably one of the rudest, most arrogant ways to word that statement.

Perhaps that area can be converted into a bunker of sorts, the tanks can still be there and that way it will remove the outside atmosphere. Being a bunker there would be lots of room for E1 style objects (just as long as they don't obstruct the tank fire too badly). This could solve the problem, but still keep the area in the map.
Risen wrote:I don't dislike the idea, in fact the rockets flying everywhere are a new and different trap and that much I did like.

You know, I've never thought of it in that way before...

If you guys are willing to take the effort, you might try LilWhiteMouse's idea with Enjay's tanks and put it into the level. It would look very nice and work properly too. Mixing old tricks with new ones, the old super flat HOM glitch with invisible bridge things. Bah... now I have to go do MORE homework...
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Postby NiGHTMARE » Sun Oct 10, 2004 12:54 am

One thing I'd definitely like to see done with E1M9 is for all the regular doors in cyber-menace's area to be replaced with the cool sloped doors from Biohazard's bit :).

In fact, I'd really like to see what nmn can do with this level... ;)
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Postby Nmn » Sun Oct 10, 2004 1:59 am

Than I'm taking e1m9. ;)
Everyone else can cope with that?
Risen wrote:Torm, will you be posting E1M3?

Yes yes, do so. I want to see how much was my pretty raped by the Dark Archon, oh the humanity :P :)
EDIT:
I see what some people have with the bastard. The map is nice but there are a couple of things that don't fit here.
What's the deal with the cyber? Remove him ASAP. His cage seems a bit awkward.
The area with slime and moving thingies (near the exit) seems underdetailed (when compare to the rest of the map, and computers are overused there, not to mention a dirty bleeding polyobject). The colour of the nukeage in that corridor doesn't seem appealing to me, I'll change that, and detail the damn pipe!
Where the map fails IMO is the ending. Tanks? Road? O_o This would be cool for any map out there, but not E1. The area is solid tough, but the texturing-Green grass and brown rocks? o_O Most exteriors in E1 are either brown96 or brown1 surrounded. And I need to replace the tanks and the exit-a mere exit room with a switch will be better IMO. And besides, it's waaaay too hard there. Altough the difficulty level while progressing trough OURS e1 has increased (new monsters) still I believe Cybers and Rockets (not counting rocket zombies) should appear at least half way trough e2, not in e1. Too hard for only the 4th level in e1 IMO.
Later, I need to do some stuff before I can sit to my mapsies and see what I can do with them.
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Postby TheDarkArchon » Sun Oct 10, 2004 4:10 am

Do you have a webpage I could host it on, NMN? Apparently "freewebs" was a download virus thingymajiggery. EDIT: Ah, sod it: http://www.freewebs.com/thedarkarchon/E1M3Z.zip

BTW, I didn't rape it. It was gagging for it. :lol:
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