[complete] Final Heretic Chapter One: The Docks

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[complete] Final Heretic Chapter One: The Docks

Postby UltimateLorenzo » Tue May 05, 2009 10:43 am

Here

http://www.doomworld.com/idgames/index.php?id=15653

you can find my last level, The Docks, for Heretic and ZdooM (last version).
It is a remake/sequel (the one you prefer) of the first Heretic map.
A lot of decorate, scripts, puzzles... new monsters, textures, things...

Have a good hunt!

Lorenzo
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Re: [complete] Final Heretic Chapter One: The Docks

Postby NovaDragon » Tue May 05, 2009 11:45 am

I have to admit I did enjoy this one. It was most certianlly reminicent of a dock type setting in a harbor and in terms of difficulty it was certianlly enough to keep someone on there toes and itching for health but not impossible. I liked the use of civilians as they can also be used as a meat sheild. The multiwand was also an awsome weapon. Now to go on to a few things i didnt like.

The one thing that just got annoying was the first cutscene. Its good and all but when you die you have to listen to it all over again. Maybe adding the autosave feature afterwards to stop this. I know I could just save and all but its not too big of a deal, I just dont liek to use them. As I said, thats just more of an annoyance there but it is my fault.

The biggest downfall with the map as well as its best upset were the new enemies. The usage was good and dispite having alot of health and damage on them, it wasnt that big of a deal. There speed however was.......no damn archer needs to be 3 times the speed of an archvile. This is all the new enemies that have that and it makes the deathknight fight just shy of impossible as it keeps near you and its attakcs are very fast to begin with. I would suggest keeping there speed the same even if it makes them slow, it will be alot fairer especially with the deathknight.

The other thing is the multiwand. I can understand that its normal damage is low till you find the gems. The only problem is that the gems are seriously misbalanced. The green gem is good for making enemies flinch and thats about it, its damage is unoticable. The red gem doesnt seem much more powerful than the normal fire. The blue gem was rediculous as thats all you need to brutalize any enemy. You dont even have to be near them with the aim as radius damage takes care of that in itself. It makes the gems to far unbalanced from eachother.

This is a wad i recommend as it is great detail for the setting, decent scripting, and good usage of new monsters. Just cut down the speed of the enemies to what they should be and maybe balance the multiwands gems a bit more. Otherwise I can say perfecto on this one.
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Re: [complete] Final Heretic Chapter One: The Docks

Postby Chris » Tue May 05, 2009 2:09 pm

NovaDragon wrote:in terms of difficulty it was certianlly enough to keep someone on there toes and itching for health but not impossible. I liked the use of civilians as they can also be used as a meat sheild.

Maybe I'm just not as good of a player, but I found it rather difficult, even on the second-lowest difficulty setting. The archers were especially problematic since they have a fast projectile, and trying to dodge would invariably have me bumping into the civilians (which I felt were out of place; they just wander around aimlessly despite a horde of monsters coming in to kill them/me), and I get the brunt of the attack. The civilians would also get in the way when trying to fire back. I was constantly scrimping for ammo until I got the first powerup for the mult-wand.

The one thing that just got annoying was the first cutscene. Its good and all but when you die you have to listen to it all over again.

The cutscenes in general felt rather slow. Maybe adding more text per message would've helped, but it took seconds to read a single sentence.

no damn archer needs to be 3 times the speed of an archvile. This is all the new enemies that have that and it makes the deathknight fight just shy of impossible as it keeps near you and its attakcs are very fast to begin with.

The speed of the archers themselves I felt was fine, although their projectiles were a little too fast. I didn't have a problem keeping my distance, though I had issues firing back until most of the civilians were killed. The speed of the deathknight was a problem, though, especially since you couldn't damage it half the time.

The other thing is the multiwand. I can understand that its normal damage is low till you find the gems. The only problem is that the gems are seriously misbalanced. The green gem is good for making enemies flinch and thats about it, its damage is unoticable. The red gem doesnt seem much more powerful than the normal fire. The blue gem was rediculous as thats all you need to brutalize any enemy. You dont even have to be near them with the aim as radius damage takes care of that in itself. It makes the gems to far unbalanced from eachother.

I found the multi-wand relatively good. The initial stage was completely useless, though, as I couldn't even reasonably take down imps or golems with it (very slow and almost no damage). But once I got the red gem, I could take them down in a hit or two.. it made the weapon much more effective. The blue gem was even better since it didn't bounce and did freeze damage. The green gem I found to be edging back towards useless, since it just had a slower rate of damage (despite the faster attack rate) than the previous two attack modes and I quickly ran out of ammo for it.

All-in-all, it wasn't bad, though it felt lacking and seemed a little unbalanced in parts.
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Re: [complete] Final Heretic Chapter One: The Docks

Postby NovaDragon » Tue May 05, 2009 8:56 pm

I know what you mean Chris, to be honest im not the best player around either, im really only halfway decent at the games because i know the damage and roughly how much it takes to kill monsters. Therefore when i see or hear them, i prepare for it and can kinda predict the outcome (Of course unless its a trap).

I actually agree with the peasents too in a way because I did get stuck on them but that never did really end up hurting me, but the ammo wasted on them was a problem from time to time. Really the speeded monsters werent too bad, it just bothers me though as with the archers, there attack is really fast and I did end up dying from them two or three times before i made it through the level. (only to end up getting killed from the deathknight) That knight really does need balancing though as it is nearly impossible with the speed.

I will admit with that wand, i really didnt spend testing it out too much since i was low on health and didnt take any chances so that may be my doing there. I just thought the blue gem was overpowered thats all. With the amo portion, i just ran to the inn, completed that even, then did my doing inside the church to kinda set up a safe haven. Monster infightning is almost required. I definatly did enjoy this though and recommend it to any player that loves Heretic.

*Edit* - I did only try this on the hardest difficulty (equivilent to ultra violence, not the final one) So just incase that makes a difference. *shrugs*
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Re: [complete] Final Heretic Chapter One: The Docks

Postby UltimateLorenzo » Wed May 06, 2009 1:33 pm

I'm happy you enjoyed the level.
Regarding the weak points, let's say:

1) yes, i increased the enemy speed for the simple reason that during playtesting i found the new enemies too simple to kill. And i increased the arrows speed too: in the previous version you had enough time to avoid them... :-)
2) i tried to make the civilians running away from the player using the "+FRAIGHTENED" decorate command, but still they try to reach you. Well, if they want to die... let them die!
3) probably you're right saying that the blu gem attack is too strong... but i enjoyed so much freezing the enemies! ;-)
4) I hope you didn't reamin without ammo or health... i'm quite sure i put enough ammo in the level to kill all the enemies.
5)Perhaps the cutscenes are too long... but well you can always save your game. Maybe i'll add an autosave in the next versions.

Ultimate Lorenzo
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Re: [complete] Final Heretic Chapter One: The Docks

Postby Gez » Wed May 06, 2009 1:43 pm

Speaking of civilians... I got killed by the Death Knight (a frost attack from the multiwand bounced right back at me, aargh :P ) and then he went on slaying all the civvies that were still alive. Heh.

Kinda funny to lose health when you get near the chicken coop or the pig pen, too. I guess they aren't happen to be on the market to be butchered and sold, so they try to kill any potential customer. :wink:
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Re: [complete] Final Heretic Chapter One: The Docks

Postby UltimateLorenzo » Thu May 07, 2009 10:10 am

Really? Never noticed that the detah knight star killing all civilians. Cool!

Both pigs and chickens are "enemies" with their own attack. If you get close to the cages, they attack you.
I have to confess this is the part i like more! ;-)
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Re: [complete] Final Heretic Chapter One: The Docks

Postby Enjay » Thu May 07, 2009 12:17 pm

I too would find the ammo tight initially. However, it can be considered an aspect of the gameplay (and indeed, the cutscene warns you abut it). If you don't waste too much time standing around trying to kill things with the gold wand and, instead, make a bee line for the shop where you kill the golems and get rewarded with a crossbow, then it is much easier to go back outside and start killing things with an effective weapon and the skeletal knights drop plenty of ammo for your bow when you kill them too.
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Re: [complete] Final Heretic Chapter One: The Docks

Postby UltimateLorenzo » Sat May 09, 2009 10:35 am

That's the point!

I don't want the player to go around all the level only with the weak crystal wand... i correctly specified that you should first rescue the bow.

Lorenzo
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Re: [complete] Final Heretic Chapter One: The Docks

Postby NovaDragon » Sat May 09, 2009 11:47 am

Thats the thing i did really like about the wad, you have a freedom of choice in it. If you go for the bow first, you wont be brutally slaughtered. If you go for the Church next, you can slaughter the hellguard and claim the key to start your gem collection. Then you can go for the multiwand and your set. Thats how i did it to make it the easiest.

In reguards to the enemies you do have a point with there speed and i really didnt mind it too much. Maybe make the Deathknight a little slower (still definatly faster than normal but not that fast) that way it will be a little more managable considering the speed of the attacks. Thats the only fight i have extreme problems handling.
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Re: [complete] Final Heretic Chapter One: The Docks

Postby UltimateLorenzo » Sun May 10, 2009 12:43 pm

It's very difficult to work on a level difficulty as it depends a lot on the player's skill. It is even more difficult if you have to set new monsters for which you, both as author and player, have no experience.

I changed many times speed and health of the new monsters i put in the level, and at the end i decided for what it can be found in the wad. Too much difficult?
I think that if it is not impossible, it can be finished.

Lorenzo
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