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Re: E1remake [WIP]

Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 11:45 pm
by przndoom
IMO, i think you should name it something diff, than "remake"., like why remake a classic :D .
Also it gets rid of all that post of "legality" and that kind of drama...

Let's say. hmm, i don't know, since it was called Knee-Deep in The Dead...Shallow pool of Corpses....Foot-deep In demon blood? Puddles of demon blood...Drowning in the grave??

its more original and more personal. than calling it a "remake"...and some people won't have a bad taste in their mouths right of the bat of a project.

Re: E1remake [WIP]

Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 6:12 am
by NiGHTMARE
Waste High in the Deceased :).

Re: E1remake [WIP]

Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 10:42 am
by esselfortium
About Yea-High Into Those Designated As Having Been No Longer Among The Living As Of The Approximate Time Of This Writing

Re: E1remake [WIP]

Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 10:55 am
by Amuscaria
From the limited amount of screenshots, I can say that the amount of details being presented is "acceptable", although more will definitely improve the over all visual feel. The detail style being used is very 90s-ish, and in this day and era, people generally expect more eye-candy from doom maps. Adding some computer pannels and flickering lights as well as some damaged walls will liven things up a bit. Also, the details between the maps seems rather inconsistent in quantity. The 3rd screenshots shows much more detail, using SUPPORT2 borders and lights on the ceilings, where as the first 2 don't have any of that. The second secreenshot is especially blan with almost no details to be found other than the ones that are graphically placed on the textures. I recommend some crates, barrles, lights (sprite lamps), or anything to be added. It simply looks unfinished. The out areas should also have more or a "yes this is a building" feel to them, instead of just a blank wall. However, the detail style is consistent with classic doom, which might be your overall goal.

As for gameplay, I can say nothing from screenshots. I haven't played it (i'll try it if I have the time), so I wont make any half-assed assumptions. The map-layout is that of a circular-flow style, which generally makes the game more enjoyable, imo, than lineage or back-and-forth maps. Although I cant be sure. Still, from the amount of red dots compared to the amount of brown and yellow dots, i can ay that the map seems a bit tight on the ammo (unless all those red dots are mosnters that drop crap). I also see next to no health items on the map, which might be a pain with that many monsters. It's not usually wise to only put as much ammo as the map-maker needs to beat the map, since he knows were all the monsters and items are. The monster placement also seem cluttered. There are many areas where it's filled with monsters. Unless you want to accomplish a "Doom-Gods Only" style of gameplay, I'd say there are just too many monsters for some of the areas. But again, I cant be certain.

As for legal issues, nothing will happen even if this mod was illegal. I've seen doom wads where it was just the normal doom maps but that's copied and pasted together and the player uses a;; the heretic weapons. :D

EDIT: having played the demo, I've changed some views on this.

The maps have a good amount of detail, even though it looks 90s-ish *which is fine). The maps are pretty cramped and doesnt have the open feel like the normal doom maps (which is also fine, which ever suits your style). There are areas that needs detailing, such as the computer with the COMPSPAN textures. Map02 also has an outdoor area near the begining where there is a Nukage pool. I can step out of the window and go into this area, but I cant get back in (shown in your second screenshot). The amount of monsters to weapons is a problem, especially the type of monsters. The first map was played with pistol almost all the way through, which can get a bit annoying. The second was better once I the player has a shotgun and chaigun. still, there is an uneven amount of mosnters within the maps. Some areas are completely filled (usually the hallways), while others (generally the larger rooms) are next to empty. The most annoying part of map02 is the back-and-forth game-play. It was running to a switch, hitting it, then running back to a door that you know was gonna open. It was like that almost through out the entire map. The machingun is rather useless, since there is a chaingun. The sounds and sprites for that weapon also needs a lot of work.

generally, pretty decent set of maps. And game play was managable.

Re: E1remake [WIP]

Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 12:17 pm
by przndoom
NiGHTMARE wrote:Waste High in the Deceased :).



that has a good ring. lol

lol Leave it to Eriance. Always a good help! think it should be 90's ish since its like "retelling the story" like alot of mods have done, but throw some fresh things ...response to E's comment on legal, is i agree nothing will happen, but the audience might a different reaction and all aboot the audience XD or customer w/e

I wish i can make sweet maps instead of boxes and holes ...takes some skill.

Re: E1remake [WIP]

Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 12:23 pm
by Ethril
esselfortium wrote:About Yea-High Into Those Designated As Having Been No Longer Among The Living As Of The Approximate Time Of This Writing


I vote for this

Re: E1remake [WIP]

Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 6:25 pm
by FANADICALCOWHEAD
NiGHTMARE wrote:Waste High in the Deceased :).

That sounds interesting,but,how about waste high in phobos? whip it has a nice ring to it reminds me of whipping cream :P
Eriance wrote:From the limited amount of screenshots, I can say that the amount of details being presented is "acceptable", although more will definitely improve the over all visual feel. The detail style being used is very 90s-ish, and in this day and era, people generally expect more eye-candy from doom maps. Adding some computer pannels and flickering lights as well as some damaged walls will liven things up a bit. Also, the details between the maps seems rather inconsistent in quantity. The 3rd screenshots shows much more detail, using SUPPORT2 borders and lights on the ceilings, where as the first 2 don't have any of that. The second secreenshot is especially blan with almost no details to be found other than the ones that are graphically placed on the textures. I recommend some crates, barrles, lights (sprite lamps), or anything to be added. It simply looks unfinished. The out areas should also have more or a "yes this is a building" feel to them, instead of just a blank wall. However, the detail style is consistent with classic doom, which might be your overall goal.

As for gameplay, I can say nothing from screenshots. I haven't played it (i'll try it if I have the time), so I wont make any half-assed assumptions. The map-layout is that of a circular-flow style, which generally makes the game more enjoyable, imo, than lineage or back-and-forth maps. Although I cant be sure. Still, from the amount of red dots compared to the amount of brown and yellow dots, i can ay that the map seems a bit tight on the ammo (unless all those red dots are mosnters that drop crap). I also see next to no health items on the map, which might be a pain with that many monsters. It's not usually wise to only put as much ammo as the map-maker needs to beat the map, since he knows were all the monsters and items are. The monster placement also seem cluttered. There are many areas where it's filled with monsters. Unless you want to accomplish a "Doom-Gods Only" style of gameplay, I'd say there are just too many monsters for some of the areas. But again, I cant be certain.

As for legal issues, nothing will happen even if this mod was illegal. I've seen doom wads where it was just the normal doom maps but that's copied and pasted together and the player uses a;; the heretic weapons. :D

EDIT: having played the demo, I've changed some views on this.

The maps have a good amount of detail, even though it looks 90s-ish *which is fine). The maps are pretty cramped and doesnt have the open feel like the normal doom maps (which is also fine, which ever suits your style). There are areas that needs detailing, such as the computer with the COMPSPAN textures. Map02 also has an outdoor area near the begining where there is a Nukage pool. I can step out of the window and go into this area, but I cant get back in (shown in your second screenshot). The amount of monsters to weapons is a problem, especially the type of monsters. The first map was played with pistol almost all the way through, which can get a bit annoying. The second was better once I the player has a shotgun and chaigun. still, there is an uneven amount of mosnters within the maps. Some areas are completely filled (usually the hallways), while others (generally the larger rooms) are next to empty. The most annoying part of map02 is the back-and-forth game-play. It was running to a switch, hitting it, then running back to a door that you know was gonna open. It was like that almost through out the entire map. The machingun is rather useless, since there is a chaingun. The sounds and sprites for that weapon also needs a lot of work.

generally, pretty decent set of maps. And game play was managable.

Well I guess I should make a few secrets more noticeable (Since their is a shotgun somewhere in the first room :cheers: )however I'll give you a bit of a hint (large boxes house some surprises).
I forgot about making the window impassible I'll correct that next release.So I'm guessing I should remove the chaingun dude...Also I'll try and add more ammo and health for UV (since its been a problem before)And I'm sure that fisting 200 demons isn't fun either so I'll cut back on them too.

Re: E1remake [WIP]

Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 7:12 pm
by Zhs2
"Waste" High? Image

Re: E1remake [WIP]

Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 8:14 pm
by Amuscaria
I personally think the machine gun is useless. It's just a slower version of the chaingun, and the Chaingun is slow as it is. Also, the grenade launcher fires really fast revenant fireballs? o_o I'm guessing this set of maps is meant for Boom only, so it uses dehacked? Cuz it cant be greatly improved by switching to Decorate and Hexen-Map format.

Re: E1remake [WIP]

Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 8:30 pm
by esselfortium
Firing monster fireballs from a player weapon isn't actually safe to do in dehacked, anyway...

Either way, though, I don't really think that switching this from a Boom project to a ZDoom one is going to make this necessarily better, especially considering that it's barely using most of Boom's capabilities as it is.

Re: E1remake [WIP]

Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:17 pm
by FANADICALCOWHEAD
Eriance wrote:I personally think the machine gun is useless. It's just a slower version of the chaingun, and the Chaingun is slow as it is. Also, the grenade launcher fires really fast revenant fireballs? o_o I'm guessing this set of maps is meant for Boom only, so it uses dehacked? Cuz it cant be greatly improved by switching to Decorate and Hexen-Map format.

If I switch to decorate (which I don't know how to do) and if I switch to doom in hexen format (which I hate using) how can this wad work on dsdoom and pspdoom?I'll try speeding up the chaingun speed and put it at the end of map02.The thing about the machine gun is that you can control how many bullets you want to shoot (instead of shooting 2 bullets with one click Its one bullet. That way you don't wast ammo while firing.The machine gun is really effective when used right.Chaingun should only be used during battles with waves of monsters, machine gun is designed for only one monster at a time.

Re: E1remake [WIP]

Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:07 pm
by przndoom
FANADICALCOWHEAD wrote:) how can this wad work on dsdoom and pspdoom?I


:? wait, what??? thought this was zdoom forums

Re: E1remake [WIP]

Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:37 pm
by FANADICALCOWHEAD
przndoom wrote:
FANADICALCOWHEAD wrote:) how can this wad work on dsdoom and pspdoom?I


:? wait, what??? thought this was zdoom forums

The wad still works on zdoom...And It works on most other ports (even doom95 remarkably)

Re: E1remake [WIP]

Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:00 pm
by Dutch Devil
I played through the first map for the second time to my surprise, I think this map was on Doomworld as well some time ago.Its an good map with decent to avarage gameplay, there never were any really challenging parts.Difficulty remained roughly the same throughout the map, the were no real challenging fights anywhere.I know this is going to be your first map out of an set of maps, but in my opinion beefing up gameplay some more would make it more fun.Throw some tougher traps in there, around key cards or just on places where players would never expect them.Have some peaks in gameplay harder on some places and easier on other parts, while still focusing on an easy map.

The details on map01 where good but in some places there was detail what I found to be pointless, loads of texture misalignments on the star textures in particular.And this room (see below) is probably the most ugly one in the whole map.Imo the parts with the nukage is way too bright to begin with, but to make it even worse is the dark section in the middle that completely ruins it.Darken the areas with the nukage alot more and use some more gradient lighting in the other parts.And to the left of the screen you have an nicely detailed wall that doesn't serve much purpose other than making this room look nicer, while in my opinion it makes it worse.I would have removed that and replaced it with something that makes more sense, lights, pipes or maybe an secret or an platform with an couple of monsters on it.Make better use of that room is my advice.
Image
Its an good map and I liked the layout, but you gotta work some more on lighting, detail, gameplay, and texture alignment.

Re: E1remake [WIP]

Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 6:22 pm
by FANADICALCOWHEAD
Dutch Devil wrote:I played through the first map for the second time to my surprise, I think this map was on Doomworld as well some time ago.Its an good map with decent to avarage gameplay, there never were any really challenging parts.Difficulty remained roughly the same throughout the map, the were no
Its an good map and I liked the layout, but you gotta work some more on lighting, detail, gameplay, and texture alignment...

Well for next release I'll edit both map01 and map02 and get rid of any flaws I can find with the addition of a third map (e1m3 map03)
Also I plan to find a machine gunner to replace the nazi.Since I am recruiting mappers would you be interested in making a map for this? e1m6 or e1m7 preferably?