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Re: [WIP] Doom: The Lost Episode

PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 10:05 pm
by Nightmare Doom
phi108 wrote:Regarding Marathon, anyone know of a good way to play it nowadays? I tried the Aleph One source port, but it isn't as good as ZDoom. I can't really play the original game since I don't have a mac. I fear ZDoom and descendents have made it so that all other old games won't feel smooth and fun to play anymore. (I also found a Descent GL port that I didn't like. I probably didn't configure the settings enough...)

Back to this project,
It is a good shrubbery. I like the laurels particularly.



Have you tried dragging the game folders to the alphaone icon?

Re: [WIP] Doom: The Lost Episode

PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 10:22 pm
by Nuxius
A couple of notes from a longtime console port Doom fan:

a)Hell Keep map - Midway did not do this map, ID themselves did it for the Jaguar version of Doom. Since PSX Doom uses Jaguar Doom maps, it got included in with the mix. It's John Carmack's KISS method in full swing (he had far more of a influence in the Jaguar version that the original PC one, since there he was more busy with coding the engine, whereas here all he had to do was port it).

b)Spawning Vats - You think that map looks different, you should see Mt. Erebus. :p

c)The Mansion - This map is a Doom 2 map (you reached it from a secret exit in the Suburbs), not sure what you're getting at here. Also, the switch to the secret exit is not invisible, there is a lift that is in front of it that can be lowered from the lava below, revealing the switch in all it's glory. :p Also, secret exits are supposed to be hard to find, I hope you don't do something like the E2M5 exit to E2M9; some "secret" that was.

d)Twilight Descends - Yes, the secret exit was there in the original PSX Doom map, and it lead to The Marshes. It was not just a "add in" by Kaiser.

e)Redemption Denied - I look forward to seeing your changes, as this map was extremely disappointing for me. A not so great end to a great game!

f)The Marshes - Just don't get rid of the secret crusher switch, it's always fun to see someone play that for the first time and get caught by it. Even more fun if it's a subsequent play through and they use the teleporter that leads to it on accident.

That's all I have to say for now, look forward to seeing the final wad.

Re: [WIP] Doom: The Lost Episode

PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 10:27 pm
by phi108
I said it isn't as good as ZDoom, I didn't say I couldn't get it to work. Aleph One works on Windows. I guess I shouldn't complain about free game files and a free source port. ID should follow Bungie's example.

Re: [WIP] Doom: The Lost Episode

PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 1:37 am
by Xaser
@Soda: Thankses! I'll add it momentarily... don't want his great work to be ignored!

@Phi: Yes, Aleph One isn't quite as polished as ZDoom, but for Marathon it's the best there is. Ignore the choppiness and enjoy Durandal's maniacal missions, mate! :P

@Nuxius: Thank you immensely! Hehe, replies are in order...
a) Interesting... I just assumed it was non-iD thanks to its squareness. The map's not a bad base at all, and with a few odd additions (new front entrance for one) it's actually looking quite nice (by classic standards) so far. Still WIP though. :P

b) Ugh. I was bloody shocked at that! Erebus has always been my favorite and they butchered it. @_@

c) Er, I was commenting on the style but I guess I was speaking oddly. :P Anyhow, thanks for the tip but the secret exit switch must have been "lost in translation"... the 'switch' looks like it's in the right position but the sector it's in has no tag, not to mention the switch linedef is in the middle of the sector so it wouldn't show even if it was lowered. Odd, it is... still, I'll use your idea as a base... do you remember specifically how it worked? Was the lift sector lowered directly (i.e. press 'use' on the sides) or was there another hidden switch-y thing?

d) Thanks regarding the Twilight exit... funny, I've never actually found it. Would it still be all right to get to Marshes from Mansion? Or would you all prefer the Twilight exit, like the original? It might make more sense to PSX-ers since it would lead to the right map. Club Doom fans might get pissed the other way around... :P

e) Don't worry... I'll make it memorable. I actually have a bit of a Marathon:Infinity inspired idea (surreal-ish), since we've sorta got on that subject. It's easy as pie to pull off and hasn't been used in regular Doom, so...

f) I'll keep it! That doggone switch made me die laughing (literally) the first time I saw it. Funny... I just played through Marshes again and it *is* pretty doggone fun, like Cutty said. Whoever said darkness was bad? :P

Hmm... continue tomorrow, I will. As for now,
Image

Re: [WIP] Doom: The Lost Episode

PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 3:02 am
by Nuxius
Xaser wrote:Anyhow, thanks for the tip but the secret exit switch must have been "lost in translation"... the 'switch' looks like it's in the right position but the sector it's in has no tag, not to mention the switch linedef is in the middle of the sector so it wouldn't show even if it was lowered. Odd, it is... still, I'll use your idea as a base... do you remember specifically how it worked? Was the lift sector lowered directly (i.e. press 'use' on the sides) or was there another hidden switch-y thing?

Maybe this will help explain better:
Spoiler:


Xaser wrote:Thanks regarding the Twilight exit... funny, I've never actually found it. Would it still be all right to get to Marshes from Mansion? Or would you all prefer the Twilight exit, like the original? It might make more sense to PSX-ers since it would lead to the right map. Club Doom fans might get pissed the other way around... :P

I'd rather see the Mansion secret exit used, myself. You can leave Twilight Descends' secret exit room in there, but remove the exit teleporter, and put a powerup in there, like what they did in Perfect Hatred for PSX Doom (I think it was a Soulsphere and a Mega Armor they put in the room in place of PC version's secret exit).

Re: [WIP] Doom: The Lost Episode

PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 5:12 am
by CaptainToenail
I remember playing most of these maps in CDoom64, they were quite fun :yup:

Re: [WIP] Doom: The Lost Episode

PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 6:39 pm
by Unknown_Assassin
Nice maps. I played up to E5M3, and the only problem I continued to experience is the lack of ammo on UV.

Re: [WIP] Doom: The Lost Episode

PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 7:02 pm
by Gez
Boxing cacodemons is tiring after a while, true. And I saved as much ammo as I could, since I a score of imps and three demons that way, too. I'd recommend replacing some of the imps by zombies. Also, five monsters remained -- apparently, two niches didn't open to let them out.

Re: [WIP] Doom: The Lost Episode

PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 7:50 pm
by Wills
Nuxius wrote:c)The Mansion - This map is a Doom 2 map (you reached it from a secret exit in the Suburbs)


Last time I checked this map wasn't in doom2.wad.

Re: [WIP] Doom: The Lost Episode

PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 8:48 pm
by XutaWoo
Wills wrote:
Nuxius wrote:c)The Mansion - This map is a Doom 2 map (you reached it from a secret exit in the Suburbs)


Last time I checked this map wasn't in doom2.wad.

I think he ment PSXDoom2.

Re: [WIP] Doom: The Lost Episode

PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 10:10 pm
by Xaser
He did. Although both 1 and 2 were merged in PSXdoom, Mansion comes during the Doom 2 "chapter" so its style fits. I was just commenting on how it fit the style so perfectly it would have been quite at home in doom2.wad. :P

@Nuxius: Perfect! Thanks, it's all finished, ready, and working now. I *think* it works the way as intended, but I was unsure of the path to get to the exit itself. You'll be the judge once the next beta comes out. Also, Twilight's secret is now home to a BFG. It's actually only the second of two in the episode... the other is in Marshes, so you've really got to work to find it. It makes the boss too easy otherwise! :P )

Some thoughts so far...

I've grown to really like E5M2's music. Would anyone complain if I keep it?

I need a new sky texture. The way I have the maps set up, the Hell sky fits perfectly in, say, M2 and M3 but clashes horribly with 6, 5, and 9... not to mention the fact that the episode isn't supposed to be set in Hell. What I'm looking for is something sinister and surreal, with dark colors perhaps? I wonder what Hell's sky at night would look like? Hmm...

For E5M3, does anyone have any good ideas on how to make it less 'Vats-ish besides the usual vertex-scramble method (i.e. change sectors' shapes so they look different)? Also, you see that big, square empty voidspace in the middle of the map? I was thinking of filling it in with a quick outdoor vista, but would that be too un-Doomish or change-ful? I don't want to mess things up too much, y'know. :P

Also, I've got E5M2 complete (woo!) and I'm going as far as to say that M5 and M6 are done entirely. Balance is *much* better on M2 now (no more forced fisting), yet as it stands gameplay on M3 is fine... actually quite fun from a pistol start (going the direct route is suicide). Also, E4M4 now has a temporary exit switch so you can play on through. :P

About time for a new beta, soon. I'll update the first post when it's available (tomorrow maybe?).

Re: [WIP] Doom: The Lost Episode

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 9:14 pm
by Xaser
*shink*

The new build is up! A quick list of what's new in v0.666:

-E5M2! The new entranceway really adds some atmosphere, many areas have been redecorated, and the gameplay has been improved immensely (no more forced-Tyson).

-Crazy new sky texture. Inspiration struck at random and I wound up throwing together this bad boy. Somehow, fitting!

-The secret map, "The Marshes", is now reachable from E5M5. Also, "The Mansion" was somehow missing its signature Super Shotty, so I've taken the liberty of re-adding it. :P

-A few minor changes include darkening the whole of "Twilight Descends", a few minor graphical changes on "Ominous Lair" (still unfinished, it is), a quick fix to an error in E2M2's music (I hope), and a temporary exit in the shell of E2M4 so progression can continue at the very least.

Enjoy and stuff... comments continue?

Oh dear, constant updates? I smell Zen Syndrome. >_<

Re: [WIP] Doom: The Lost Episode

PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 2:53 am
by Gez
Xaser wrote:For E5M3, does anyone have any good ideas on how to make it less 'Vats-ish besides the usual vertex-scramble method (i.e. change sectors' shapes so they look different)?

Remove the vats (the room with little square sectors of slime, one of which being a secret teleport pad) entirely, they're the most blatant part of Spawning Vats to me.

Also, try to change the flow by removing some doors and creating instead new paths.

Re: [WIP] Doom: The Lost Episode

PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 12:50 pm
by Onslaught Six
Gez wrote:
Xaser wrote:For E5M3, does anyone have any good ideas on how to make it less 'Vats-ish besides the usual vertex-scramble method (i.e. change sectors' shapes so they look different)?

Remove the vats (the room with little square sectors of slime, one of which being a secret teleport pad) entirely, they're the most blatant part of Spawning Vats to me.

Also, try to change the flow by removing some doors and creating instead new paths.


I agree. I'm not at all opposed to adding some new pathways (or even entirely new rooms) to help set it off from the original. But that's me.

Re: [WIP] Doom: The Lost Episode

PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 8:03 am
by Kinsie
E5M2's end room gave me an idea.

When renovating E5M4, make it sort of half "consumed" by a demonic void, so for example some parts are generic techbase while other parts are being slowly transformed into the dark void (the current skybox)

Then call it "The Void of Levelness." Image

Yeah, I need sleep.