ZDoom 2.0.48 Build map support?

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X-DOOM
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ZDoom 2.0.48 Build map support?

Post by X-DOOM »

Is there a way to set texture in a build map file ?
Did the build maps have 3d floor support?

What we can use when playing with these build map?


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Cyb
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Post by Cyb »

the extent of zdoom's build map support is converting them to hexen format, so there's no 3d floors, no other build effects etc, still it's interesting to see, here's how you do it

first you need a util that can much about with build files, I use XWE. Anyways what you do is extract the map file and the corresponding .art file (which contains all the textures). Now start up zdoom with -file mapfile.map -art artfile.art and then go to the console and warp to the proper level name. For instance if you're loading Duke3D's map 1, which is E1L1 then in console you type "warp E1L1" (without quotes). You'll also probably want to load the palette, that's simple as well, what you need to do is extract the correct palette file from the grp file and rename it playpal.* (any file extension should do the trick, I used lmp tho) and load that along with the map in -file
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Chilvence
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Post by Chilvence »

Wait a minute, how does this deal with rooms over rooms without spooning?
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HotWax
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Post by HotWax »

Chilvence wrote:Wait a minute, how does this deal with rooms over rooms without spooning?
WTF is spooning? I mean other than the obvious answer of cuddling in a certain manner with your SO...

IIRC, the room-over-room effect in the Build engine is pretty much a hack. The level is still designed in 2D and then certain specials are applied to an area to give it 2 (or more?) floors. The answer then is simple. Only the "real" floor and ceiling would be kept when it was translated to ZDoom.
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randi
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Post by randi »

Chilvence wrote:Wait a minute, how does this deal with rooms over rooms without spooning?
It doesn't.
HotWax wrote:IIRC, the room-over-room effect in the Build engine is pretty much a hack.
No, the Build engine supports true room-over-room because it does not use a 2D BSP. The way Shadow Warrior and Blood get it to display two overlapping rooms at the same time is sort of a hack, but just being able to use one room on top of the other is not a hack. In fact, the Build engine will let you use rooms that physically intersect (and are therefore impossible in real life).
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Chilvence
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Post by Chilvence »

Spooning.... it must be something local. Have you never had a battle to the death with someone with a dinner spoon? Actually, its an insider secret that a teaspoon is a far more effective weapon. But you didnt hear that from me!

Anyway forgive me, but can anything be done yet with this feature?
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HotWax
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Post by HotWax »

Chilvence wrote:Anyway forgive me, but can anything be done yet with this feature?
Only after a complete redesign of the engine. :)

So, Build uses a portal system, like Descent's? Or something similar?
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Hirogen2
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Post by Hirogen2 »

Again these portals.... heh WHAT is that? :)
In fact, the Build engine will let you use rooms that physically intersect (and are therefore impossible in real life).
What about if two players run into each other, because of the physical intersection?
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Chilvence
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Post by Chilvence »

They can not check for collision if they dont share the same sector; I think doom blockmap is similar, the only difference here is the blocks are overlayed on top of each other.

Im pretty sure Duke changes the sector an actor is in only when it crosses one of these portal lines, so things could quite probably exist in the same place and yet not seem that way to the game.

Thats my guess anyway.
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HotWax
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Post by HotWax »

Hirogen2 wrote:Again these portals.... heh WHAT is that? :)
In fact, the Build engine will let you use rooms that physically intersect (and are therefore impossible in real life).
What about if two players run into each other, because of the physical intersection?
In Descent, I recall a level being made just to demostrate how one could create very impossible situations using the portal engine. You started inside a large spherical room with nothing in it but a cube in the middle. Each side of the cube has a door which can be opened. Each side leads into a different place, but there is no teleporting going on. If there were two players positioned on opposite sides of the cube, they could both fly into the cube at the same time and would never hit each other because as far as the engine is concerned, they're in totally different areas of the map.
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Jon
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Post by Jon »

Hirogen2 wrote:Again these portals.... heh WHAT is that? :)
In Descent, I recall a level being made just to demostrate how one could create very impossible situations using the portal engine. You started inside a large spherical room with nothing in it but a cube in the middle. Each side of the cube has a door which can be opened. Each side leads into a different place, but there is no teleporting going on. If there were two players positioned on opposite sides of the cube, they could both fly into the cube at the same time and would never hit each other because as far as the engine is concerned, they're in totally different areas of the map.
:shock: Whoa..
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HotWax
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Post by HotWax »

I should also point out that such a map would look like a garbled mess in any decent editor...
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Post by Xaser »

Man, Descent is one cool game. That portal trick is very useful for making teleporters or gateways and stuff. I have a level called "Trans-walls" where it uses that effect to make these teleporter thingies in the level. How he did it, however, is quite a mystery to me, as the level is insanely complex, with many rooms stacked inside each other with only one way in between each room (The teleporter. Oh, and I know the level that HotWax is talking about, it's simply called "4D". Pretty simple level, but shows off the technique wuite well. Also, this effect shows up in the original descent mission once. In the final level (Charon Volatile Mine), there is a tiny place where two hallways intersect, but it is very hard to spot, and I figured it out purely by mistake. I seriously wish ZDoom could do that, however, it would be very hard to implement, as Descent's level format is a whole lot different than Doom's (and any other game's level format for that matter). Actually, you can do kind of a faked version of it using the Teleport_line special. Heh. That gives me a cool idea... :)
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Chilvence
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Post by Chilvence »

I dont see how you can get quite the same visual effect without using portals. I mean, can you actually see two rooms intersecting on the same screen in these levels?

I think portals could be used for beautiful things. I remember hoping that quake 3 would use them to totally freak you out by doing impossible things with them, but they only turned out to be dolled up teleporter pads.

I can imagine in a bunch of techy corridors, making three left turns and suddenly being in some kind of jungle or hellish environment.
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HotWax
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Post by HotWax »

Chilvence wrote:I dont see how you can get quite the same visual effect without using portals. I mean, can you actually see two rooms intersecting on the same screen in these levels?
Well it depends on what you mean. The game doesn't consider the areas to be in the same physical space, so you don't literally see two rooms in the same 3D space at the same time, no. What you see is much more akin to those "dolled up teleporter pads" you talked about, except there's no fog effect and everything through the portal is physically there as far as the engine's concerned.

Imagine it like this: You're floating in a large room which goes on for 15-20 meters ahead of you. You can clearly see the walls of the room including the back wall. In front of you, 5 meters away, is a cube hanging in space. The side of the cube facing you is opened, and through it you can see another large room that is about 40 meters square. The room can be clearly seen through the open door, and appears to physically exist, even though such a room is clearly impossible because you can see what's beyond the cube. You can fly behind the cube and you'll see nothing of the room you saw through it. Once you fly into the door, you will BE inside the room you saw, and the only part of the previous room you can see is the wall through the doorway you just came through. In fact, if both ends of the door were handled in a similar way, the room you were just in could now be stuffed into that small cube, hanging in space in the room you flew into, presenting the same physical impossibility as before.

It's important to note that the reason these levels look so screwed up in an editor is because the editor simply tacks the rooms on where they should logically go in 3D space. If the rooms happen to overlap, the editor doesn't care, and so draws them "incorrectly." The walls won't physically overlap in Descent, because Descent's mapping system is completely different than Doom's.

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