Enjay's Marine Assault: First Impressions

Discuss anything ZDoom-related that doesn't fall into one of the other categories.
Anonymous

Post by Anonymous »

Loved your choice of music. I'm just going to say ditto to what everyone else has said.

I especially liked the use of scientists; I actually took risks to kill them just because they were fun to kill. The cutscenes were cool. I really enjoyed using the railgun once I finally got the zooming to work. The new enemies were awesome, and that plasma sniper in the high cave that you have to fight from the point where you get the railgun is a particularly nice touch. Wish you had used more dogs though, they were fun to fight. Maybe I'll go back and make a copy of the level with more dogs and scientists and less of the "me dying horribly" action. :)

(Took me a while to get used to the game style. The tactics players should use are more like those in Wolfenstein or Quake than Doom, I think, and thus the game is much harder. :)
User avatar
Biff
Posts: 1061
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2003 5:29 pm
Location: Monrovia, CA, USA

Post by Biff »

Definitely, at some point being set upon by a pack of dogs would really get my attention!
User avatar
Chilvence
Posts: 1647
Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2003 6:36 pm

Post by Chilvence »

This... is beautiful
User avatar
Hirogen2
Posts: 2030
Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2003 6:15 am
Github ID: jengelh
Operating System: RedHat-like Linux (RHEL, Fedora, CentOS, etc) 64-bit
Graphics Processor: Intel with Vulkan Support
Location: Central Germany

Post by Hirogen2 »

The text file provided sounded like it is going to be hard. At first, it seemed like. You reach for the entrance, beat two guys and then just get attacked by two ... things from the sides. A second later, a third one comes from behind. (In Skill 1.) That caught my attention, however it was easier later -- including "hard spots", where I had to think how to proceed best next, i.e. when getting the Railgun I already was snipe-punched a bit; so take care.

For the technical part, off-topic: palette changes have an impact on player color, i.e. if you had #0000ff as player color, it would be #0080ff depending on palette, so if you turn around the blue and red color ramps, your DM game is ruined. However, this is an SP map go and enjoy it. Thumbs up for hi-color etc.
User avatar
wildweasel
Moderator Team Lead
Posts: 21374
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2003 7:33 pm

Post by wildweasel »

I have one question for Enjay.

If you'll release something like this, which is flooded with copyrighted/parts of copyrighted material...WHY WON'T YOU RELEASE ASPECTS?!
User avatar
Enjay
 
 
Posts: 26403
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2003 4:58 pm
Location: Scotland

Post by Enjay »

wildweasel wrote:I have one question for Enjay.

If you'll release something like this, which is flooded with copyrighted/parts of copyrighted material...WHY WON'T YOU RELEASE ASPECTS?!

OK, you want the long or the short answer? Heck, I've got verbal diarrhoea, you're getting the long one. Like it or not. :P :)



Hmmmm, Marine Assault...

It has some sprites, which I credited to the original author, it has some textures based on stuff by Fredrik, which I credited. It has a palette based on ideas by Fredrik which I forgot to credit, but will do when I upload a slightly fixed version. It was inspired by a map by Espi, credited. I didn't know who was the original author of the dog sprites because I have seen them in quite a few WADs. I understand they were originally by Laz of WolfenDoom fame, so credit is due.

Over and above that, it has resources from a few games, none of which have made it into the WAD unaltered - just like half the WADs out there. Are the people who made those games going to come after me because I have a few downsized and altered versions of some textures in my WAD? - no, I suspect not.

Aspects on the other hand has 88 levels, a good proportion of which (maybe 60%) were originally by other people. I have altered them all, usually to quite a large extent, but many of them are levels where the author said not to distribute stuff based off their WADs. So, that stuff doesn't get released. There are levels that I don't even remember who they are by. So they don't get released. There are 3398 textures using 3169 patches and 869 flats. These came from all over the place. Some commercial sources, some "community" produced resources - but most of them I have no idea of the original source, so I can't credit anyone - so they don't get released. The sounds in Aspects (all 810 of them) - some are by me, many are ripped from other games. The music in Aspects - most of it is copyrighted MP3's (all 120 of them).

So, what does that leave? The sprites - most are based on sprites from other games, but I've done a lot to them myself and don't have a problem releasing them - which is where a few of the skin packs I have done came from (although not the marines one I did a few weeks ago - I bet you can work out where a few of them ended up though). A few incidental graphics that I did - titlepic, bossback, interpic, credit etc etc.

So Marine Assault does have resources from a variety of places. None of those places are especially unusual sources for resources in a WAD. Wherever someone has worked on or originally produced the resources in it, I have done my best to credit them, and the rest of the stuff is irrelevant because there will be no fall out because of it. In other words, it's a typical WAD using resources from typical places and complying with typical conventions.

Aspects, however, is stuffed full of things from people who have specifically stated they do not want their work redistributed in another form. It contains more sensitive material (eg MP3s). The sheer scale of it is quite different and the bottom line is even if I wanted to remember where it all came from and either credit or remove resources as appropriate I couldn't. Nor would I want to. The mod was not originally intended for release. It was a treat for a friend that got out of hand. It was a thank you to him for starting the role playing scenario that Aspects is based on. It was my way of saying thank you and paying him back for hours of his hard work and my fun. To rip it apart would spoil the integrity of the mod, which hangs together very nicely.

One of the reasons for releasing Marine Assault was actually to give people a taster of what Aspects is like. It was my attempt to try and release something "Aspectsy" without releasing the full mod, because I can't. So, I made a very Aspects feeling level (or at least it feels a bit like one of the 3 Aspects scenarios) and populated it with Doom marines. I (mainly) kept the Doom weapons because the WAD was being done for a Doom audience and I wanted to keep the Doom feel. That being said, the level is quite like a few in Aspects - especially the Red Giant scenario ones. That is - it is a mission based level, with a briefing, clear goals, predominantly human enemies with some tougher hardware to back them up.

For information, the equivalent level in Aspects has a slightly different twist (I've just about finished porting the level to Aspects). In the briefing (complete with on screen photographs), you are told that "Red Giant" - a huge interplanetary corporation, tempted a group of settlers to the fourth moon of a planet called "Hope" then they arranged an "accident" to test a biological weapon on the settlers. This is not especially unusual or out of character for Red Giant. Remember, Aspects is actually a role playing game that has been running for over 10 years now. Red Giant is well established in my mind and I have pages and pages of material on them, and planet Hope for that matter (not an especially nice place). There are a lot of subtleties and nuances that are only hinted at in the Doom mod which only the intended audience (my friend Russell) would get. The mod isn't meant for every one. Each and every level has a little something intended to delight or amuse him, and it would simply not be relevant to most people. Moreover, he's not a Doom player, so the levels are set up for his game style and preferences, not those of a hard core doomer (whatever that may be). Anyway... Some settlers escaped and are hiding in the caves. Red Giant have tried to track them down, and any survivors they find end up as part of the genetic experimentation programme. Some of the survivors have managed to get an SOS signal to the British Galactic Police Association. Then you get back into familiar territory - you are told about the power couplings and the defence grid. Except in this case, the power couplings provide power for the Red Giant communications system. The next significant difference comes near the end. Once you disable all the power couplings, the refugees reveal their hiding place so that you can join them. Once you do, they send a signal (now possible because the Red Giant system is down and cannot block or detect the refugees one). The signal guides the BGPA ships through the defence grid and the level ends.

So, you see, Marine Assault was my attempt to try and get a little "Aspects" out there, but in a more releasable form, and reconfigured and tailored for a Doom audience.

Well, you did ask. :lol:
User avatar
David Ferstat
Posts: 1113
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2003 8:53 am
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Post by David Ferstat »

Enjay wrote:... One of the reasons for releasing Marine Assault was actually to give people a taster of what Aspects is like.
I've said it before, and no doubt I'll say it again:

Bastardo, Nigel! :)
User avatar
Enjay
 
 
Posts: 26403
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2003 4:58 pm
Location: Scotland

Post by Enjay »

David Ferstat wrote:Bastardo, Nigel! :)
:)
User avatar
Chilvence
Posts: 1647
Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2003 6:36 pm

Post by Chilvence »

Damn I'd be happy if you did just one of these "conversions" every year ;)
User avatar
Ultraviolet
Posts: 1152
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2003 9:08 pm
Location: PROJECT DETAILS CLASSIFIED.

Post by Ultraviolet »

Whoa, Nigel, that's an RPG I might even be willing to get into. Everybody I know that does RP stuff is like... well, they don't market that hobby very well, so I've never had a very high opinion of RPG's in general. I don't suppose you'd be willing to give away some storyline-type details, would you? How it all started (including the characters of the friends that play with you, how it started and such, and so on), where it is now...

Hell, if I get really interested, I might ask if I can be a write-in player. :P MSN Messenger or AOL Instant Messenger, of course, paper would be too tedious, heh. Speaking of MSN Messenger, I used to have you on my list on an old account and we'd talk every now and then. Shall I PM you with the new address?
User avatar
Enjay
 
 
Posts: 26403
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2003 4:58 pm
Location: Scotland

Post by Enjay »

Ultraviolet wrote:Whoa, Nigel, that's an RPG I might even be willing to get into. Everybody I know that does RP stuff is like... well, they don't market that hobby very well, so I've never had a very high opinion of RPG's in general. I don't suppose you'd be willing to give away some storyline-type details, would you? How it all started (including the characters of the friends that play with you, how it started and such, and so on), where it is now...
Now that's something I might be able to do. I'll have to sit down and give things a reasonable chronology. We sat down a while back and looked at the entire chronology from about 4000,000 years BC (yes four million) to about 3000 AD but there were gaps and inconsistencies that have never been resolved. One of the things we were trying to do was marry together the 3 scenarios that have evolved as a result of what people wanted to play.

The original "Aspects" is the Aspects of the Doom conversion, and much more - ie The stuff set some time in the 24th century. But it draws on all sorts of elements and is a rich vibrant world which a Doom conversion can't even begin to scratch the surface of. As that became wider ranging and more encompasing, it just so happened that we were running a Weekly live action group which started off set in White Wolf's "World of Darkness" but frankly that was too limited, self obsessed and "wanky" for our tastes, so it evolved to take in elements from future Aspects - but in the present day. The the role playing group wanted to play some fantasy live action - and we obliged - setting up some of the most testing events I have ever heard of people putting on (72 hours on a Scottish 3-peaked hill fighting nearly all the way, and only a few hours sleep, under canvas if you were lucky - midnight raids, river crossings, stretcher carries for over a mile at 4am etc playing in all seasons - even with snow lying on the ground...).

Then of course came the task of us realising that these scenarios were all related and we sat down to try and iron out the history. The fantasy could be included as our "lost years" history in a Tolkeinesque way, but how to explain where everything had gone and why - without doing (or wanting to do) a Tolkein because Aspects is very different? We had already introduced elements of the future Aspects into the fantasy - which the more switched on players, who had played future Aspects, got and the others didn't even notice - as it should be.

So, ummm, yeah. Future Aspects is really "where its at" as far as I am concerned. It's where it started. It's where the feeling is and it is the most eveloved. It is a fully fledged game with the amazingly in depth details of all sorts of worlds, governments, wars, peace, ecology, religion... but there is a live action branch that has spawned its own background and which itself has a fully fledged rule system running to - oh I dunno - a lot of pages - yeah, it's big. :)

And you are right about the matketing of RPGs. Most people don't do it well. Even big organisations have web sites which you come away from thinking "what a bunch of retarded geeks". Role Playing manages to shoot itself in the foot time and time again with alarming regularity and accuracy. We actually discovered the best people to play our games - especially the really physical stuff - were non-role players. These "normal" people just get on with it, roll with the punches (sometime literaly), understand the limitations and are out to enjoy themselves. They also tend to have a better handle on life and personal interaction, and so can role play better than some analy retentive geek who can only relate to his rule book. There's not much worse than standing in the middle of a blasted moor, or and exposed hillside, or a dark forest in the early hours of the morning with the screams and shouts of combat going on all around you, yet all you can hear is some geek whining to you that no-one seems to be paying attention to his "invisibility" game calls.

Gah! Rant over. I'll see what I can do. :)
User avatar
Chilvence
Posts: 1647
Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2003 6:36 pm

Post by Chilvence »

Lightning bolt!
User avatar
HotWax
Posts: 10002
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2003 6:18 pm
Location: Idaho Falls, ID

Post by HotWax »

For the first time since I've perused the ZDoom forums, Enjay has succeeded in frightening me.

/me shudders.
User avatar
Lexus Alyus
Posts: 4220
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2003 5:07 pm
Location: Nottingham, UK

Post by Lexus Alyus »

Just release more levels...

...mmm, that seems like a fair bit of advice to myself :-D
User avatar
Jon
Posts: 48
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2003 2:45 pm

Post by Jon »

I have NO idea what you are trying to say... but i like the way you said it!
By the way, is a sequel in the works for marine assault?

Return to “General”