Irritating Level Design

Discuss anything ZDoom-related that doesn't fall into one of the other categories.

Irritating Level Design

Postby DumbLuck » Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:45 pm

Am I missing something? There are levels which require legging it over gaps, but the bloody game does not allow jumping. The game in question is TNT Revisited, a map pack. Although, I have had this problem in many map packs. I have had to just accept that I can not make the bloody gap and just change map. Jesus Christ! Is there a secret action that nudges the player along, instead of jumping, for these types of annoying maps packs? Before you ask, yes, I am always running! Running like a maniac. I did not like it in Turok 64 and I do not like it in Doom. Use a bloody walkway, like normal people.
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Re: Irritating Level Design

Postby wildweasel » Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:46 pm

If you are holding forward and either of the strafe keys, your top speed is a bit faster than if you were only running forward.
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Re: Irritating Level Design

Postby Matt » Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:29 pm

I think if you type sv_allowjump in the console that can allow jumping and override the map settings.

Personally I just no clip, no shame, no fuss, no muss.
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Re: Irritating Level Design

Postby Rachael » Fri Sep 11, 2020 5:02 pm

DumbLuck wrote:Is there a secret action that nudges the player along, instead of jumping, for these types of annoying maps packs?

https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Straferunning

Basically, angle your view at about 40-ish degrees off the target, and then strafe and run forward at the same time.

You will need a running start, so start it with plenty of room in front of you.
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Re: Irritating Level Design

Postby osjclatchford » Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:37 am

Yeah. I remember when I first discovered straferunning back in the day. I was king of DM in my local lan group for about three hours afore the others figured out what I was doing and then we were all doing it! Lol...

I don't use it as much these days as I usually play with jump and crouch on but some mapsets, like btsx, disable this to encourage classic playstyle and so as not to break any maps that are exclusively designed for a more vanilla play. Also see darkening2 for an excellent exercise in straferun jumping. It's a good place to learn how to do it for first timers. Theres a box maze that requires the skill to exit one map... It's a bitch to get used to first time but once you've added it to your repertoire they'll be no stopping you. Even though I use jump and crouch these days, I still use it without thinking when in a fix as it's become ingrained play response... But then I've been dooming a LONG time...

Yeah you can use the allow jump console command or simply set allow jump in the gzdoom menu but I'd advise learning straferun jumping first... It's quite usefull
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Re: Irritating Level Design

Postby Graf Zahl » Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:00 am

Am I the only one who considers maps that depend on straferunning broken by design? It's just stupid to require a movement quirk that seems to be alien to so many users. This wouldn't be ther first map set requiring advanced knowledge of how movement works in these old games.
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Re: Irritating Level Design

Postby osjclatchford » Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:52 am

Yeah it is a bit of an odd thing to be mandatory for map completion. It's a bit elitist and I personally hate that kinda thing... I can overlook it in darkening2.wad because
the rest of it is such a great wad all in. Now I think about it, if I'd not discovered straferunning before playing darkening2 i'd have been pretty pissed to find out it was mandatory. I probably would have assumed it was designed for zdooms jump option... Which, in turn is really a bit of a cheat...
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Re: Irritating Level Design

Postby NeuralStunner » Mon Sep 14, 2020 2:47 pm

Graf Zahl wrote:Am I the only one who considers maps that depend on straferunning broken by design?
Nope. I think it's fine for the occasional secret, but mechanics like this should not be relied upon unless they're taught by the game in some way.
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Re: Irritating Level Design

Postby Rachael » Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:43 pm

Straferunning is so ubiquitous in the modern Doom community that it's quite understandable things are the way they are. It kind of sucks that newbies don't know about it, but that's incumbent upon the community to make more "common" knowledge such as this accessible to people who don't know these things.

If it is an oversight, then it's one that likely couldn't be patched out of the original executable because of the way that it shaped deathmatch gameplay. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if some in-development studio deathmatches had some of its participants employ and abuse this trick.

It also could be possible that the quirk was left in the executable for players to discover early on - like its predecessor Wolfenstein, Doom rewarded players for attention to detail in finding secrets. This could just be one that was not tied specific to a level.

I don't think we'll ever know if the quirk was intentional, or if it was known about before the 1.9 release. But I think a strong case could be made that it was intentionally left in. If someone is feeling like it, you probably could contact Romero and find out what he knows about what id knew of the straferunning trick - despite being busy, he seems to be rather accessible to fans in the past few years. :)
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Re: Irritating Level Design

Postby Graf Zahl » Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:58 pm

This was certainly not intentional, just a result of how input velocity was handled. Doom is also not the only game having it.
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Re: Irritating Level Design

Postby Rachael » Mon Sep 14, 2020 6:59 pm

Doom certainly isn't the only game to have it - it never was the first, it was certainly not the last.
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Re: Irritating Level Design

Postby Sidney Chozzlebag » Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:57 pm

Reminds me of my Goldeneye days and the Silo level. Are the people who make these types of maps mouse and keyboard users? Vanilla Doom jumping bits have been used to good effect in some map packs, and can be very enjoyable and satisfying upon completion. However, let us not forget Turok 64 and the gratuitous use of jumping bits, of any kind. Holy moley, is that why I could not complete the first, second or third level on the Space Wars map pack! Christ sake. Turn on jump in the options menu, you say. Console command, you say. God almighty, I have a memory like a goldfish. Anyway, thanks for the replies. Bye Doom geeks.
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