Why are GZDoom's default settings the way they are?

[Kinsie]

I feel like those voices would be quieter than the current "why do my beautiful pixelart boys look like smeared poo" ones.

[Arctangent]

On the flip side, I reckon if GZDoom defaulted to a vanilla-like appearance (which is what some people ask how to achieve) the first impression would be "OMG I thought GZDoom was supposed to be an OpenGL port, this is crap".

I'm not really sure what's the worth of bring up theoreticals that require custom shaders to achieve.

[Graf Zahl]

It's all a matter of taste. You really don't know what the majority wants. All we know is that a small number of people who like crispy pixels are very vocal with their complaints. But that's normal for everything where personal preference is an issue. It's always a small percentage making 99% of all noise.

[Enjay]

I'm not really sure what's the worth of bring up theoreticals that require custom shaders to achieve.

I'm not sure what tou mean there. People asking how to achieve a more vanilla-like appearance has certainly happened in the past and getting close to what they want has always been possible. Not theoretical at all.

Graf is absolutely right about people with complaints being more vocal. It's just the way people are. GZDoom gets thousands of downloads but not many people post just to say how much they enjoy using it or even to say thank you.

[Kinsie]

I'm not exactly a master statistician, but if you went looking around at the Projects forum, the WIP thread, the various pictures threads on Doomworld etc., you'd probably find a lot of people who decided to turn off the beer goggles for one reason or another.

[Nash]

Only one way to know for sure - drop polls in the biggest/most active communities (this forum, Doomworld, Reddit). ;)

[Graf Zahl]

...to turn off the beer goggles for one reason or another.

Using derogatory terms to describe texture filtering doesn't give your opinion any sense of credibility. It's just the typical means of certain people to give their opinion the appearance of superiority, nothing more, nothing less.

[Xaser]

An alternative take on this: one sentiment I've seen multiple times is that newcomers to GZDoom aren't aware they can tweak certain options -- the big misconception I've seen more than once is folks not realizing that GZDoom still has the software renderer -- i.e. folks can absolutely make the game look like good ol' ZDoom 2.8.1 or whatnot.

I'm not really sure what the practical solution to this is aside from revamping the menu and/or reviving that old "default option presets" feature that was discussed a while back, but it's certainly less "change the defaults" as much as "make it easier for users to customize it".

[Graf Zahl]

If people do not even check the options, nothing can help them. It's like all those fools not reading the manuals for the stuff they buy and then complain they can't operate it.

[Enjay]

I'm not exactly a master statistician, but if you went looking around at the Projects forum, the WIP thread, the various pictures threads on Doomworld etc., you'd probably find a lot of people who decided to turn off the beer goggles for one reason or another.

As Graf said, a small number of people being very vocal. Personally, I wouldn't take Doomworld as particularly representative anyway. For a very long time now, it has been heavily populated with, and skewed towards, self-proclaimed "purists" who actively shun anything they deem not to be "Doom as it was meant to be" [although the definition of what that is seems to vary from person to person] and they are certainly very vocal about it, sometimes to the point of near zealotry. Although I have been visiting Doomworld since the 1990s, that prevailing attitude is the reason that I visit so rarely these days and it's also a part of why I no longer upload to idgames.

Only one way to know for sure - drop polls in the biggest/most active communities (this forum, Doomworld, Reddit).

GZDoom has thousands of downloads, far more than just the people who regularly post here or on Doomworld. Not sure about Reddit.



Honestly though, if people care enough to go somewhere online and complain, then they should care enough to investigate the options - surely that's easier? If they don't, it's their problem. And, as I said, you generally only hear from complainers. Happy people simply don't make their voices heard in the same way because they aren't agitating for change. Also, for really quite a long time now, there has been a hard core of people who will bash GZDoom regardless of what it is doing (and to an extent, ZDoom before it).

[Xaser]

If people do not even check the options, nothing can help them. It's like all those fools not reading the manuals for the stuff they buy and then complain they can't operate it.

The situation I'm referring to isn't when people aren't trying, but when they can't find what they're looking for when they try. The manual analogy is more like "tried to read it, but it's far too jargon-laden for the average end user."

Although I have been visiting Doomworld since the 1990s, that prevailing attitude is the reason that I visit so rarely these days and it's also a part of why I no longer upload to idgames.

I don't understand this -- what does /idgames uploading have to do with Doomworld culture? /idgames isn't a Doomworld-hosted service (they just provide a browsable front-end for it) and the archive maintainers certainly aren't exhibiting that sort of bias in their /incoming filtering duties.

[Enjay]

I don't understand this -- what does /idgames uploading have to do with Doomworld culture? /idgames isn't a Doomworld-hosted service (they just provide a browsable front-end for it) and the archive maintainers certainly aren't exhibiting that sort of bias in their /incoming filtering duties.

I knew someone would pick up on that.

I only said that it was part of the reason. The main reason is the tedious upload procedure that exists nowadays. I just can't be bothered with it. I can just stick stuff on my own web space any time I like. It was much easier when Ty was doing it ( ). I've also noticed far more other people using hosts other than /idgames these days.

I know that /idgames isn't Doomworld and Doomworld isn't idgames but the close association is clear and, honestly, I'm just not that interested in uploading to there and getting automatic reviews on the /newstuff chronicles and so on. That "baggage" is also part of the reason for me not using /idgames. To be fair, the reviews I've had there have usually (if not always) been largely positive and supportive and I don't hold any bad feeling whatsoever with anyone there. I just started feeling less and less at home when I was there. I had many discussions with various "purists" and it became clear (to me anyway) that I was increasingly a square peg on the DW forums. So I've just kind of faded away and my interest in the Doomworld aspect of /idgames faded with it; making /idgames itself less important to me. I still pop along to Doomworld occasionally but rarely log in and I don't find much in the chat to interest me any more. [I also still look in the newstuff folder of /idgames if I just want something random to play, but rarely find something that really captures my imagination that I didn't already know about.] Maybe all that will change some time (honestly, I kind of hope that it does), but I'm not that bothered about the current situation, and I'm sure no one over there is bothered by my near-total absence either.

C'est la vie.

[Xaser]

/idgames is definitely far from perfect, for sure -- the upload process is archaic, it doesn't have a way of handling versioning/updates, and if you get a rejection there isn't a proper notification for it, but it's hands-down the best place for submitting "final-ish" versions of wads since they're properly archived and mirrored so you don't get link rot problems years down the line.

If it makes you feel any better, t/nc is basically not a thing anymore, and the /idgames star review functionality is, uh... glitchy at best? Though that's more a bug with the new DW forum software than any sort of intentional thing -- it's maybe a convenient coincidence for you though.

A neutral graphical /idgames file browser sans ratings would be a cool thing to try and drum up support for, i.e. something a bit more friendly than viewing the raw FTP directory in a browser, but I'm too busy to champion such a thing so it'll remain an idea unless someone scoops it up.

[Rachael]

I'm echoing Enjay's sentiments about Doomworld, although I come at it from a fairly different perspective. But purism? Elitism? Zealotry? Definitely.

I'm not here to start drama so I won't go into detail - but to put it nicely, I don't feel at home there.

Yes, I know that there are good people there... but it's hard for me to simply dismiss the things that I don't like on that site. I have butted heads with people over this issue enough though, and really would rather just move on, even though I doubt I'll ever get over it.

[Graf Zahl]

I'm echoing Enjay's sentiments about Doomworld, although I come at it from a fairly different perspective. But purism? Elitism? Zealotry? Definitely.

What bothers me about Doomworld most are idiocies like this one:

https://www.doomworld.com/forum/topic/1 ... om/?page=3

A four page discussion how to abuse a glitch in the engine that is only reliably reproducable in 100% vanilla compatible code is seen as the greatest thing since sliced bread.
Needless to say this is something that, if finding widespread use, will cause problems to countless players. I'm saying right now that I won't entertain support for this at all. I'm sorry to say this, but some people over there are truly bonkers.
If not supporting it deters even one mapper from using iut, that's a win for everybody.