[Sigil] Romero's fifth Doom episode released

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Re: [Sigil] Fifth Romero's Doom episode to be released

Postby Chris » Sun Jun 02, 2019 1:56 pm

Nathaniel Blegglesed wrote:"Not the worst I've every played"... statements like these makes me sick.

Why? While I agree that the levels are pretty well done, and I really appreciate it's not a Brutal Doom-esque slaughter-fest and keeps a fair amount of moody horror and suspense with a bit of puzzle solving... but opinions are suggestive. Why is it sickening that some people find it okay-to-good but not perfect? People have been able to point out what they had issues with, ranging from actual map-breaking bugs, to somewhat unclear map design, to apparently self-contradictory design decisions, so it's not like it's some kind of blind hatred or anything. Just pointing out some unnecessary blemishes on an otherwise good mapset.
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Re: [Sigil] Romero's fifth Doom episode released

Postby JadedLexi » Sun Jun 02, 2019 1:59 pm

I had some issues with it not being totally clear on where to go, but most of that was some of the eye switches being buggy.
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Re: [Sigil] Romero's fifth Doom episode released

Postby Graf Zahl » Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:39 pm

Well, I have to admit that this isn't my cup of tea. Hell maps are my least favorite theme to begin with and these nearly universally take the same worn down route of Hell that has bored me since 1994. I also didn't really enjoy the gameplay.
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Re: [Sigil] Romero's fifth Doom episode released

Postby Enjay » Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:52 pm

JadedLexi wrote:but most of that was some of the eye switches being buggy.

While most of the criticisms I've seen (including my own) are mostly down to aesthetics and personal taste, the eye switches being buggy is a legitimate concern and, IMO, it was a mistake for them to be included in the way that they were. Having looked at how they are set up in the editor, I'm not surprised that they can fail quite easily. Many people commenting have said that at least one failed during their run through. Surely it must have happened for Romero too?

To me, they are a great example of something that would be easily and reliably handled using source port features and if (as in this case) source port features are not considered an option, then the switches shouldn't have been used in the way that they were (if at all). As they are, they are inherently unstable yet they are essential for progression.

As I said, IMO, most things about the maps come down to personal taste but those switches are a fundamental design flaw IMO.
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Re: [Sigil] Romero's fifth Doom episode released

Postby Korell » Sun Jun 02, 2019 5:49 pm

On the note of the eye switches, I experienced one bug with one of them on my playthrough. It was the map with the crushers, E5M4. When you go through the right-hand path and get to the room with two sets of crushers (one at either side) where shotgun guys are behind the gated areas, I activated the eye switch in that room to open the path so that I could continue, but I died in a later room. When I reloaded, however, and had to replay that section, the eye switch didn't seem to have reset, however, so I couldn't shoot it to continue on as I couldn't see it. I had to use noclip just to get next to it and shoot it so that I didn't have to restart the map.

However, I played the v1.0 version first, but there is now a v1.1.
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Re: [Sigil] Romero's fifth Doom episode released

Postby Lydia Hammleson » Sun Jun 02, 2019 10:15 pm

Would be awesome if it could play the mp3's or wavs from SIGIL mapped up to the levels and intermission music.
When I ran it, I was getting normal doom midis instead of the ones in the wad, too.
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Re: [Sigil] Romero's fifth Doom episode released

Postby Jimmy » Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:26 am

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Re: [Sigil] Romero's fifth Doom episode released

Postby Hipnotic Rogue » Mon Jun 03, 2019 4:57 am

^
Nice overview. :)
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Re: [Sigil] Romero's fifth Doom episode released

Postby Enjay » Mon Jun 03, 2019 5:22 am

I've played it a second time now. I suspect I won't play it all the way through again any time soon - if ever.

Basically, I pretty much agree with everything in Jimmy's overview video (although, I don't think it's quite as tough as that indicates). The video is fair and balanced.

I guess the bottom line for me though is that it's just not the kind of map set that I particularly enjoy. It's well made and I too really appreciate John Romero being part of the community, and the fact that he actively got people from the community involved. However, if someone were to ask me "what are your least favourite kind of maps Enjay" I might answer "hell themed maps, lots of excessively dark areas, inescapable lava traps, narrow walkways, loads of crushers, cramped conditions and lots of tough monsters in those cramped areas". So... yeah, I guess it's not a map set that was ever going to be one of my favourites. It's pretty much tailored to be the kind of game that I don't find much fun.

Something that hasn't been mentioned, personally I found it a bit of a shame that the really cool artwork wasn't included in its own palette in the port-compatible version (or perhaps as a separate download). The Doom palette has stripped so much from those graphics and really reduced their impact IMO.
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Re: [Sigil] Romero's fifth Doom episode released

Postby Graf Zahl » Mon Jun 03, 2019 5:25 am

Enjay wrote:if someone were to ask me "what are your least favourite kind of maps Enjay" I might answer "hell themed maps, lots of excessively dark areas, inescapable lava traps, narrow walkways, loads of crushers, cramped conditions and lots of tough monsters in those cramped areas".


I could have written that list myself. It perfectly sums up my idea of a map I wouldn't like much, if at all.
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Re: [Sigil] Romero's fifth Doom episode released

Postby Gez » Mon Jun 03, 2019 6:35 am

Independently of whether the maps themselves are someone's cup of tea, I'm glad Romero went back to making maps and they ain't anything like the ones he did nearly 26 years ago.
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Re: [Sigil] Romero's fifth Doom episode released

Postby Rachael » Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:48 am

I did another play through today, this time on the lowest skill level, and got all the way to the end.



In this play through, I also get to the secret level. Someone helped me get there, and if you're curious to know it starts at 42:40 in the vod. A little fair warning, though: Spoilers!
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Re: [Sigil] Romero's fifth Doom episode released

Postby Hellser » Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:32 pm

Gez wrote:Independently of whether the maps themselves are someone's cup of tea, I'm glad Romero went back to making maps and they ain't anything like the ones he did nearly 26 years ago.


I think that's what people were looking for though. I know I was, and these maps are different for sure.
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Re: [Sigil] Romero's fifth Doom episode released

Postby Gez » Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:41 pm

Life is change; stasis is death. It's good when people innovate, and it's even better when this innovation comes from someone that the purists can't complain about. I'm pretty sure that if the new conventions Romero created for Sigil (progression by shooting evil eyes; completion by reaching the marble image of Baphomet) had been used by some random mapper, everybody would have yelled at him or her because it breaks expectations for classic content.
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Re: [Sigil] Romero's fifth Doom episode released

Postby Nems » Wed Jun 05, 2019 4:41 pm

Been meaning to post my thoughts on Sigil since I played through it.

I liked it. Granted, half of the episode wasn't my personal cup of tea when it comes to Doom (I wasn't a fan of the overabundance of hurt floors, the level with the crusher maze can fuck right off, and some of the combat encounters feel like beating them is less reliant on player ability and more reliant on luck) but I still like it for what it is and what I expected, which for me was "Thy Flesh Consumed 2: Consume Harder/More". UV definitely wasn't meant for most first time players, I think. The enemy encounters and item placement in UV seem to operate on the assumption that the player has played Sigil on lower difficulties first and has knowledge of the map layouts prior to jumping into UV.

Hopefully Romero will have time to make more episodes for Doom/2 in the future as I'd like to see what else he has in mind, if anything. If he doesn't though then I feel like this was a pretty nice hoorah from him.
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