A radar/compass/sonar for secrets

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A radar/compass/sonar for secrets

Postby Buckethell II » Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:07 am

Hello everyone
Since i'm very bad at finding secrets (and lazy too) sometimes i'm "forced" to use cheats to reveal the secret areas of the game, but it bothers me so much
Is there any mod out there that helps the player to find the secret areas ?
Like a radar, or a compass, i don't know, something that doesn't directly show you where the secret is
Thanks in advice
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Re: A radar/compass/sonar for secrets

Postby Caligari87 » Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:15 am

Secrets are commonly defined by a sector flag and triggered when the player enters a sector, so it'd be practically impossible to do something that points you to the secret door. However, it would be possible to let the player know when they're near a secret sector. One idea would be an inventory item "tracker" that spawns invisible actors around the player. If one of those actors is in a secret sector it tells the tracker, and then something can be done to let the player know a direction or distance or general proximity.

8-)
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Re: A radar/compass/sonar for secrets

Postby Buckethell II » Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:19 am

Caligari87 wrote:Secrets are commonly defined by a sector flag and triggered when the player enters a sector, so it'd be practically impossible to do something that points you to the secret door. However, it would be possible to let the player know when they're near a secret sector. One idea would be an inventory item "tracker" that spawns invisible actors around the player. If one of those actors is in a secret sector it tells the tracker, and then something can be done to let the player know a direction or distance or general proximity.

8-)

Thanks for the quick reply ^^
That's a very good idea, and with that method you still have to find HOW to access/open the secret area, so isn't overpower aswell
It's a simple thing to do ?
I know 0 about scripting
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Re: A radar/compass/sonar for secrets

Postby Caligari87 » Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:29 am

Relatively simple to spawn the checking actors and have them report back to the tracker. It gets more complex depending on how you want the item to appear or behave.

The simplest one I can think of would be to have the secret-checkers simply make a sound when they're in a secret sector, like the pickup "boop" sound or something, so the player would be able to gauge distance and direction to the sound. Unfortunately it would be weird in multiplayer since other players could hear the sounds too, even if they don't have a secret-finder. I could make something like this in an hour or two.

Another fun idea might be like a geiger counter: The secret-finder makes noise when the player is looking toward a secret, and the noise gets louder / more frequent the closer the player is to the secret sector. A bit more difficult, but would work better in multiplayer since it could be done without other players hearing the sound.

Something very complex would be a visual radar like the motion-tracker from Aliens. The secret-checkers could report back their information to the secret-finder and show dots on a screen or something.

8-)
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Re: A radar/compass/sonar for secrets

Postby Nash » Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:41 am

Secrets aren't usually that simple, though. Take for example the rocket launcher in Doom 2 MAP01. It's hidden behind a wall that will only be opened when you jump on a platform in a different room. The "radar" would beep when you stand near the wall but it gives the player no indication as to HOW to actually get access to it.

You could probably run some heuristics to check whether a trigger line opens/lifts a wall that might be facing an adjacent secret-tagged sector but gosh thinking about that makes my head hurt already...

Not sure how to handle scripted secrets, or scripted doors giving access to secrets.
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Re: A radar/compass/sonar for secrets

Postby Caligari87 » Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:58 am

Yeah, there's a reason no one has really done anything like this yet. The things I described have been possible for 10+ years I imagine, but they'd only be useful for those few scenarios where the secret sector is right behind the secret door.

8-)
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Re: A radar/compass/sonar for secrets

Postby m8f » Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:01 am

It may be easier to beep near every door, switch, and activator line. Like, if you hear a beep, but don't see anything, maybe you need to investigate current area.
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Re: A radar/compass/sonar for secrets

Postby Buckethell II » Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:07 am

You're right guys, but in a kind of way that's the point; you see/hear where the secret is (at least you know where they are located) but it's still up to the player to find the way to access the secret :')
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Re: A radar/compass/sonar for secrets

Postby Buckethell II » Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:16 am

m8f wrote:It may be easier to beep near every door, switch, and activator line. Like, if you hear a beep, but don't see anything, maybe you need to investigate current area.

Exactly, that could be a really good way too
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Re: A radar/compass/sonar for secrets

Postby Reactor » Mon Jul 30, 2018 4:50 pm

Hmmm. Such thing can be useful in certain situations (where secrets play a prominent part in a level), and it can be a very good addition for a Computer Area Map pickup. Of course, its effects must not last outside that level. It would make secrets kinda pointless, if they're spoon-fed to the player.
There would be several occassions, where such item would be useless. Special secrets which are triggered by actions (collect all Armor Bonuses on the level to grab a Megasphere at the level entrance) would not show up on the map, of course. Also, in several occassions, seeing the actual secret area is no problem - getting there, however...
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Re: A radar/compass/sonar for secrets

Postby Enjay » Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:14 pm

Although far less common, some secrets are activated by placing a Classes:SecretTrigger thing in the map and activating it via a script or a line special. The suggested system would not find those. e.g. the collect all armour bonuses example that Reactor suggested would probably use one of those but they can be used for simpler situations too.
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Re: A radar/compass/sonar for secrets

Postby Reactor » Tue Jul 31, 2018 3:36 pm

I had a somewhat good idea. Instead of a secret "sonar pulse", it should be some kind of scroll, which tells the player of an actual secret in a textbox...or maybe more secrets. This way, the "sonar pulse" would also be very useful for special secrets (collect armor bonuses to make an item spawn, solve a combination of switches etc. etc.) But that's just an advice.
It may mean some extra work alright, since the developer has to write a list of secrets, but many players enjoy such things.

Well anyways, if someone could code a pickup item which marks the hidden areas on a level, make sure you share the coding here :) Such item could be put into very good use in campaigns.
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Re: A radar/compass/sonar for secrets

Postby Kinsie » Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:19 pm

Reactor wrote:I had a somewhat good idea. Instead of a secret "sonar pulse", it should be some kind of scroll, which tells the player of an actual secret in a textbox...or maybe more secrets. This way, the "sonar pulse" would also be very useful for special secrets (collect armor bonuses to make an item spawn, solve a combination of switches etc. etc.) But that's just an advice.
It may mean some extra work alright, since the developer has to write a list of secrets, but many players enjoy such things.

Well anyways, if someone could code a pickup item which marks the hidden areas on a level, make sure you share the coding here :) Such item could be put into very good use in campaigns.
Already in via the SECRETS lump, and I don't think anybody uses it.
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Re: A radar/compass/sonar for secrets

Postby Enjay » Wed Aug 01, 2018 3:18 am

I wonder if it's rarely used simply because it's kind of off the beaten track? If it was just part of a more familiar lump (MAPINFO for example) - or somehow integrated into an in-game popup dialogue a bit like the Strife ones or something rather than just being a console dump, it might be more remembered/used. Maybe.
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