How usefull is gzdoom for commercial projects?

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Zen3001
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How usefull is gzdoom for commercial projects?

Post by Zen3001 »

Why should or shouldn't I use gzdoom for my own game?
From what I know I can do it without worrying too much about license issues, I just somehow got used to gzdoom and don't want to spend time getting into another engine.
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Re: How usefull is gzdoom for commercial projects?

Post by wildweasel »

Remember that if you're planning to sell your project, that immediately cuts off your right to use a lot of the resources found on these forums - it's not a good look to be selling something that's derived from existing id Software assets (or Monolith's, or 3D Realms, etc.). So you're either going to have to make absolutely sure of the licenses for the stuff you're using, or draw/record/compose it all yourself. Of course this isn't GZDoom's fault, but if you've primarily made your mods out of free resources in the past, be prepared for culture shock.
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Zen3001
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Re: How usefull is gzdoom for commercial projects?

Post by Zen3001 »

of course, I know that, most of these free resources are crap anyway
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Re: How usefull is gzdoom for commercial projects?

Post by wildweasel »

Zen3001 wrote:of course, I know that, most of these free resources are crap anyway
I mean...as much as they're not useful for anything you hope to profit from, I wouldn't go so far as to call them "crap."
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Re: How usefull is gzdoom for commercial projects?

Post by Clay »

Zen3001 wrote:of course, I know that, most of these free resources are crap anyway
I feel like that statement was uncalled for as there are MANY wonderful artist lurking these forums and a ton of great works.

Have you made anything that is...well...not crap?

To answer you question... yes, it is very useful as is any tool in the right hands. There are a few around here working on commercial stuff for GZDoom.
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Zen3001
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Re: How usefull is gzdoom for commercial projects?

Post by Zen3001 »

SomeOtherDoomGuy wrote:To answer you question... yes, it is very useful as is any tool in the right hands. There are a few around here working on commercial stuff for GZDoom.
yeah I too think very positive about it, just want to hear some cons here...
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Lexus Alyus
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Re: How usefull is gzdoom for commercial projects?

Post by Lexus Alyus »

So is it actaully possible and legal to make an original game that uses GZDoom?

If a game was to have completely original everything except use the GZDoom code, could you actually sell that with no issues?

If it is, then I'm sure a lot of the talented artists here would love to licence their art for a profit. Maybe you could work with them and share the wealth?

I'm personally loving the idea of making a completely original game using GZDoom but I would have never thought it would be valid or acceptable to actually sell it.

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Re: How usefull is gzdoom for commercial projects?

Post by Gez »

Yes, it is possible, this is explicitly allowed by the GPL that GZDoom is (mostly) under since the big 3.0.

How to make a commercial game using GZDoom!
  • Make your game first. That includes every resources you'll use. Keep in mind some can be a bit obscure and you may not even know you're using them (like the frame border graphics in Doom).
  • Make an [wiki]IWADINFO[/wiki] lump in your mod.
  • Give your mod the .iwad or .ipk3 extension, so that it can be detected as a stand-alone game.
  • When you bundle GZDoom with your game, remove the zd_extra.pk3 file, as it contains all the non-commercial resources (font characters, a few sounds, pickup graphics for the pistol/wand/etc., crouching marine sprites, game-themed cursors, this kind of things) used to play Doom, Heretic, Hexen, Strife, or Chex Quest, so you shouldn't distribute it. Your game isn't going to need them anyway since they're not for it. These resources were split-off from GZDoom.pk3 entirely so as to make it easier to bundle GZDoom with standalone games, by the way.
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Re: How usefull is gzdoom for commercial projects?

Post by Apeirogon »

As says gez, but I personally think that gzdoom in current, compiled from github repository, condition is not...mmm...entirely what you want.
Like gzdoom CAN be better than now, but it CANT be better because of compatibility with old mods/maps/dehacked patch or errors of developers, like "lightsizefactor number" property in gldefs, and etc.
So a little edit is preferable. But this is only my own opinion.
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Re: How usefull is gzdoom for commercial projects?

Post by Graf Zahl »

Apeirogon wrote: So a little edit is preferable. But this is only my own opinion.

.. but then users will be stuck with the exact version you used to make the changes. Anyone using the stock engine can automatically benefit from regular engine releases.

One prominent case of a mod that got badly burned by an outdated custom engine was Caverns of Darkness. It came with a modified version of a DOS-based Eternity engine. The main problem, of course, was, that at the time of its release this was already borderline critical and quickly degenerated into being unplayable.

And we are at a critical shift again right now. 32 bit is still too widespread to be neglected. And Vulkan is not ready yet. But expect both 32 bit and OpenGL to degenerate over the coming years, once the old hardware gets finally retired. So if you decide to ship a custom engine based on both of these, prepare for trouble.
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Re: How usefull is gzdoom for commercial projects?

Post by zrrion the insect »

Make sure that you understand the strengths and weaknesses of the engine first before you start making a game that would really benefit from another engine. If you're trying to make a sprite based 2.5d shooter then this engine will work for you but an ultra realistic high resolution graphics high poly 3d physics puzzle game would be better suited to an engine with more robust handling of 3d models and a more flexible engine.

So to answer your question, Gzdoom is very useful for some kinds of commercial projects and whether it will be useful to you depends on what type of game you intend to make.
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Apeirogon
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Re: How usefull is gzdoom for commercial projects?

Post by Apeirogon »

Graf Zahl wrote: users will be stuck with the exact version you used to make the changes.
I agree, but on the other side, no one, or nothing, in this case, "live forever".
I mean, there are plenty of games which now can be launced only using dos box, or even spectrum/msx/hardware from 80s emulators, like metal gear 1/battletoads/metroid/metal slug/starcraft/etc.
But yes, this games dont built on open source predecessor.

And again, this is MY opinion for "commercial projects based on gzdoom".
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Zen3001
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Re: How usefull is gzdoom for commercial projects?

Post by Zen3001 »

Gez wrote:Make your game first. That includes every resources you'll use. Keep in mind some can be a bit obscure and you may not even know you're using them (like the frame border graphics in Doom).
That problem should be easilly avoidded by starting the development with your own Iwad and not using for example doom's iwad.
Someone should create a base iwad for this with all the resources required for gzdoom to start, it will have to include a basic map I think, just create some dev textures.
Graf Zahl wrote:And we are at a critical shift again right now. 32 bit is still too widespread to be neglected. And Vulkan is not ready yet. But expect both 32 bit and OpenGL to degenerate over the coming years, once the old hardware gets finally retired. So if you decide to ship a custom engine based on both of these, prepare for trouble.
good point but I think it's safe to use this engine for the next 5 years or so...
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Re: How usefull is gzdoom for commercial projects?

Post by gwHero »

Graf Zahl wrote: .. but then users will be stuck with the exact version you used to make the changes. Anyone using the stock engine can automatically benefit from regular engine releases.
I agree with Graf here. I know it can be tempting to ship your own modified executable with your mod or TC, but 9 out of 10 you will regret this within a few years because of all the modifications and new features that will probably applied and added to the original engine; not to mention trouble with new hardware or OS changes that likely can be expected as time goes by. Never underestimate how much effort it will take to keep an engine like this running on all those different configurations.
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Re: How usefull is gzdoom for commercial projects?

Post by Chris »

Apeirogon wrote:I agree, but on the other side, no one, or nothing, in this case, "live forever".
Doesn't mean we should just give up completely. Even DOSBox (itself needing to be kept updated for modern systems) is hardly perfect, with many apps not functioning correctly due to various hacks used to improve performance and/or latency. Complete and accurate emulation of late 80s, early 90s PCs is still difficult to do at real-time speeds and low latency. There's a reason things like Chocolate Doom exist, even though vanilla Doom can run in DOSBox. If your goal is to actually play the game, it's almost always best to have an engine capable of running on modern systems, than it is to emulate the original engine's target system.

And that's without bringing up cases where you may want enhancements that the original can't provide.
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