Narration with set protagonists - 2nd or 3rd Person?

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Zan
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Narration with set protagonists - 2nd or 3rd Person?

Post by Zan »

Hey, I've been thinking about this for a long while now, but since I can't make up my mind I thought I'd ask for some opinions here.

When a Doom mod has intermission story screens and narration, as well as a set/defined protagonist (i.e. Duke Nukem, Caleb, whatever, not Doomguy), would you prefer that the game refers to you the player (2nd person) or the character in question (3rd person). For example, should the text say "You step through the Demon portal" or "He stepped through the Demon portal"?
I know that since Doomguy is allegedly the person who plays the game, then 2nd person makes perfect sense. The reason why I also like this in particular is that it gives more immersion into the game's story.

Now my problem is what is best when the protagonist isn't your own avatar, but an already defined character. Would 2nd person narration have the same effect of immersion or would it actually make it weird/awkward? I'm mainly asking in concern with Hedon, and since Zan (Hedon's protag) has been the character I've made (heck, I even went as far as to borrow her name for my dev nick which already makes this more awkward), then it's hard to relate due to personal bias, so I need some exterior opinions.
For those who aren't familiar with Hedon, I'll drop you an example here. The game currenly addresses you in 1st person at the end of the level, although Zan's a set and relatively non-vanilla character.

Would you prefer the text to be like this?...
Spoiler:
...or this?
Spoiler:
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Re: Narration with set protagonists - 2nd or 3rd Person?

Post by ramon.dexter »

Well, I can take it from another point. When reading a book, some books are narrated in first person, and some in third person. I cant say which one I prefer - its based on the display of character, etc. But I think that the second/third person narrative view would be slightly better for character like Zan. But also, ppayers are already used to the first person, so change might be slightly confusing.
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Re: Narration with set protagonists - 2nd or 3rd Person?

Post by Zan »

Yeah, I do feel like 3rd person would be the more elegant choice here. Still, I'm waiting on few more opinions before I make up my mind.
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Re: Narration with set protagonists - 2nd or 3rd Person?

Post by Arctangent »

Well, if you use second person with a character that clearly isn't just a player avatar, then stuff quickly gets Homestuck-y, so I'd advise against it unless you actually intend for meta humor ( or, potentially, drama ) stemming from the difference between the character's desires and the player's desires.
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Re: Narration with set protagonists - 2nd or 3rd Person?

Post by Matt »

Given the amount of agency over the protagonist's actions I'd rather go with second-person like a Choose Your Own Adventure book.

I'm okay with the homestuckiness. There's always going to be a role-play element to gaming that isn't an abstract puzzle game that always directly speaks to the player as the player ("Press space to continue" "use the arrow keys to push the selected block" etc.).


Third person I see so rarely I don't even have an opinion on it.


First-person narration I disliked in Return to Na Pali,* but loved in Dear Esther.
However, I spent all of my first Dear Esther run thinking I was another person who was following the story of the narrator mystery-drama style.


*EDIT: Given that "I" is normatively used specifically for the purpose of establishing that "I" am not "you" and when I say "I" that means I'm trying not to presume to speak for you in any way, suddenly taking something in which the player was doing and appropriating it to another voice saying "I" is something I found particularly jarring when it was introduced after gameplay had begun (including the entire previous game).
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Re: Narration with set protagonists - 2nd or 3rd Person?

Post by Zan »

What Matt said is kinda the reason why I even clinged to 2nd person narration so far. Still, I'm inclined to shift to 3rd, most people I've asked have told me 3rd is better, and it makes more sense.
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Re: Narration with set protagonists - 2nd or 3rd Person?

Post by ramon.dexter »

Yeah, for the comments, like matt mentioned, would be better the second person ("jump to reach the platform", "activate the device to make something"). But for the story parts, I think the third person ("...Zan reach the goal she was looking for...") would be OK.

Because using third person for comments that tell player what to do might be a lot confusing...
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Re: Narration with set protagonists - 2nd or 3rd Person?

Post by Reactor »

Personally, I don't mind whether or not the player should be YOU, or it's a defined person. Besides, if the story is about a fictious person, this gives gazillion possibilities for a sequel or even prequels, since if you come up with a non-existing person, you can think of anything about him, and write brilliant storylines. This also allows said person to appear in cutscenes (I know, Half-life has none, but Doom has several).

As for the narration, I shall handle this using radio messages. The protagonists are aided by a group of allies, who will navigate'em thru the levels - if they can, of course! This will also eradicate several problems which can trash up gameplay, like fiendishly cryptic or illogical puzzles, finding hidden areas, getting ready for a bunch of enemies come from behind and rape you an' stuff like this. Of course I didn't plan to allow said allies to spoon-fed the solution to the player across the entire game, only for the first five or six levels. Later, the player will just have to rely on its memory and finesse, and of course, experiment.
Several hidden areas within the levels will conceal hidden radio messages as well. There is more to hide in secret places rather than just ammo and medikits ;)
Oh, and I use real CB-radio and a dictaphone to record these radio messages so they'll be authentic as well. Of course, this also means that realism must be retained within "ze levulz" as well! When dealing with scenarios deep under the soil - levels like Feculent, EPR Contaminant Purge, Oh noez! The heatpipez! - the player will not be able to receive any radio messages at all (therefore an extra level featuring a radio transmitter will be included). Uh, same goes for inter-dimensional levels and various psychedelic limbos, where no man has gone before. In contrast, at the futureworld-mocking level Future Fuckballz, the narrator will be able to directly contact with the player, because, hell, in the distant future, people will be able to communicate telepathically with some super-duper helmet or smart gadget attached to the temple. :)
You can also utilize text messages, much like in the first GTA. There were phone calls, but also there was a pager which sometimes informed you about secret missions. I think that was a pretty clever idea.
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