Strife support, sort of

Discuss anything ZDoom-related that doesn't fall into one of the other categories.

Postby Enjay » Sun Oct 19, 2003 3:59 pm

randomlag wrote:It also does something else, automatically raises (by checking) sector heights so DOOM players can work at the HEXEN height. I think that can be set to any height you want since Strife is probably ok.


Strife seems to use the same height player as Doom (56). I just tried a test level. I could get from a 128 tall room into a 56 tall room (both floors at the same height) but not a 55 tall room.

I remember discussing this converter with you a while back. How "clever" is the height conversion again? I know that when moving from Doom to Hexen, or just making the Doom player taller, there are loads of places you can get caught out. eg it is quite often possible to get up a flight of steps, but not down them (presumably because you start on a higher step and your "head" is already above the height of the adjacent sector but on the upward journey the calculation is done differently - allowing you to step up and put your head above the ceiling as you move out of the first sector on to the next step up). So if you're changing player height for some reason, you end up having to walk every corridor in the level in both directions to ensure your new, taller player fits.

If you recall, I had to do this to ensure the Doom player was tall enough to get caught by the fireballs from the two Hexen tall Demons. If you leave the player at the Doom height, these fireballs fly harmlessly over his head.

For general info, the player needs to be at least 62 units tall before the fireballs from the demon will hit him when fired with both the demon and player standing at the same height. (I *think* the Hexen player is actually 64 tall - but don't quote me on that.) Anyway, those additional 6 units are enough to mess up your ability to get down loads of corridors/ stairways and also mean that you can no longer use a normal door in a 64 tall corridor because the "lip" left when the door raises is enough to prevent the player passing.

A good, customisable converter that has line types, player heights and whatever else over and above what is already in DeePsea would be a useful tool.
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Postby Goukuma » Sun Oct 19, 2003 6:02 pm

randomlag wrote:What you have going on in your fertile imagination is not my problem. That you attempt to rile people up with figments of your imagination is my problem.

But as Cyb said
some stuff

Later he threatened "you'll both have a nice ban" and you actually were banned before. The word hypocritical comes to mind. You don't really want to turn this ugly, do you? C'mon, truce in exchange for an honest promise. Everyone wins.
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Postby Goukuma » Sun Oct 19, 2003 6:17 pm

Enjay, you figured right.

Player sizes (determined with Dehacked or similar editors):
Doom 16 radius x 56 height
Hexen 16x64
Strife 18x56

Also in Strife (determined with test levels, but seems completely accurate):
16 = climbable step max height for player (was 24 in Doom)
52 = jump up max height
160 = safe jump off max height
208 = safe fall max height
Some monsters can actually walk up steps the player has to jump up.

In Strife the player is slightly wider but I can't think of Doom or Hexen levels that have you squease through a space less than 40 units wide. Also in Strife it seems you take more damage at shorter falls than in Hexen.

Here's something odd. The Acolytes in Strife are actually all around larger than the Reavers and Templars (20x60). They're 24x64, same size as a Baron of hell. Peasants and Rebels are 20x56 like Doom's zombies though.
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Postby randomlag » Sun Oct 19, 2003 11:50 pm

Enjay wrote:How "clever" is the height conversion again? I know that when moving from Doom to Hexen, or just making the Doom player taller, there are loads of places you can get caught out. eg it is quite often possible to get up a flight of steps, but not down them (presumably because you start on a higher step and your "head" is already above the height of the adjacent sector but on the upward journey the calculation is done differently - allowing you to step up and put your head above the ceiling as you move out of the first sector on to the next step up). So if you're changing player height for some reason, you end up having to walk every corridor in the level in both directions to ensure your new, taller player fits.

That's exactly what it checks for and fixes. Fixes doors and stairs and any area that within a programmable range. Also rising stairs if the conversion uses type "27". Plus adds textures when it does this if it would result in one required. This would take some hand fixing since it just uses a conversion default values for top,middle,bottom. Also teleports have to convert to 70 or 71 for it to work. IOW, you can't change these conversion values or it won't work right. There could be areas that would not work, but it was pretty good.

HEXEN is 64 tall, that's what the progammable height default check is. Btw, you can't just make a sector 64 tall, that's how you get "stuck", it has to be more for head clearance :wink: Here's the section of the control file that controls this (make both 56 and it ignores I think):

Code: Select allExpand view
                                                                             
MINHEIGHT 56   // minimum check value -we can fit in DOOM-HERETIC
MAXHEIGHT 80   // minimum height (72 looks the best, 80 fixes probs)


And this is how types are changed:

Code: Select allExpand view
[LINEDEFTYPES]
//  --- change speed/delays to suit you --
//      arg1  arg2  arg3 arg4 arg5   flag
//       n/a                                   0=crosses line
//                                               2=repeat
//                                               4=uses 
//                                               6=uses+repeat
//                                             12=shoot
//                                             14=shoot+repeat
//          speed delay key                                                   
26  13   0   16   100   3    0     6   dr OpenDoor BLUE   (Axe)


The BEHAVIOR lump is stored as an external resource, so technically it's possible to add custom scripting for each level - just create a BEHAVIOR.01, BEHAVIOR.02 etc lump for each level. If none is found the default file "BEHAVIOR.01" is used.

There are some other assumptions that may or may not work. I'm not too interested in fixing any "bugs", which is one reason I was never motivated to release it in the first place. For example, I noticed it uses an old "find sector" routine that I've changed. So when I release it does what it does and that's it :P :P
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Postby HotWax » Mon Oct 20, 2003 12:06 am

randomlag wrote:Right, it's like DOOM - with predefined goals one can "script" - basically text but in a special format. If it wasn't for someone getting ants in his pants and starting to insult me because I didn't do it in 2 weeks, I would have taken the time to type up some basic specs. They are not complete, but more than what is known now. As it is, I really don't have time to do this, but sometime next year I might if I'm in the mood for grunt work.


28. And lo, the people did cry out, saying, Oh Lord, grant us thy wisdom, that we may prosper in these matters, and scrabble not in the darkness.
29. And the people slew lambs in His name, and other sacrifices did they offer, that the Lord would smile down upon them.
30. And lo, the Lord sayeth, Oh ye people, rejoice, for My wisdom and kindness shall I bestow upon thee, that there be good tidings, and blessings, and all manner of great miracles, that ye may prosper and live in good fortune, with My hand to shelter thee.
31. And the people did rejoice, saying, Oh Lord, thou art indeed merciful and kind, and they offered up yet more sacrifices unto Him, that His kindness be repaid in full.

Chapter 7

1. But lo, among the people there arose a man whose countenance was not pious and who doubted the Lord's word. And that man spake to the people, saying, Behold, where are the miracles that were promised unto us? Where is the Lord's great wisdom in our time of need?
2. And the people replied to the man, angrily, saying, Thou wilt upset the Lord our God, that he will become angry, and will deny us His wisdom and blessings. Speak not, that you not incur the wrath of the Lord upon thee or your brethren.
3. And lo, the Lord heardeth the man, and was angered, and he spake to the people saying, Fine, if that's how you're gonna be, I'm going home! No wisdom for j00!
4. And behold, he tooketh his ball and wenteth home to sulketh in his bedroom.
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Postby randomlag » Mon Oct 20, 2003 12:08 am

Goukuma wrote:Later he threatened "you'll both have a nice ban" and you actually were banned before.
Besides me not caring, you have no clue what was really going on with the ban thing. Had nothing to do with what you tried to impugn. Let's just say it's a "French" thing somewhat similar to you actually.

However, this is not the place and nobody here cares about your self started dispute. Go to your own forum and rant as you have been and leave it there. I never had a problem at all - it's you that got ants in the pants and decided to proceed at what I guess you thought was a good course of action. Obviously not.
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Postby Enjay » Mon Oct 20, 2003 2:43 am

Goukuma wrote:Here's something odd. The Acolytes in Strife are actually all around larger than the Reavers and Templars (20x60). They're 24x64, same size as a Baron of hell. Peasants and Rebels are 20x56 like Doom's zombies though.


Hmmm, that is strange, especially as they look human sized. I wonder if they just started with the Baron definitions and forgot to change them or something when they were programming the Acolytes? There does seem to be a lot more in common between Strife and Doom than Hexen or Even Heretic and Doom at least as far as lump names go (not really related to code I know) - Strife uses the D_*** convention for music lumps, H&H do not, Strife uses DS*** for sounds H&H do not and there are other similarities too. I wonder if the code was similarly similar? :?

Oh, and check out the sound lumps DSPSDTHB and DSPSDTHC if you haven't already. :)
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Postby Goukuma » Mon Oct 20, 2003 9:35 am

If you were banned for any merde, it was your stubborn, pompous merde alone. Your attitude has always stunk. You need to stop talking down to people. It seems you have no concept of the words humility and respect.
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Postby Nanami » Mon Oct 20, 2003 10:18 am

I remember I was working on a level where I imported a bunch of Hexen and Heretic monsters into Doom. I had to take out the chaos serpent monsters from Hexen though because they're the only monster that will shoot over Doomguy's head.
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Postby Lexus Alyus » Mon Oct 20, 2003 2:31 pm

Mmmm, it appears that this topic could be locked like one before: http://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.php?t=746 I wouldn't like that to happen cus this is an interesting toppic. Strife is such a great game and it might just be possible to get it ported if we all get along :-). 2 heads are better than one... well, maybe, it might get quite annoying if you had two heads, you'd constantly be in each others faces (ha :-D). but, you get the idea, I reckon we could get this strife support thingy sorted, but please don't start using this topic as a place to get at each other, cus it's not fair on Randy. Keep it in subject please...

:evil:
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Postby Goukuma » Mon Oct 20, 2003 5:21 pm

Maybe the offending posts could be deleted to clean this thread up.
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Postby Lexus Alyus » Mon Oct 20, 2003 5:32 pm

Nah, just let any indiferances end now :-)
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