Heretic Level Completion options

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Drake Raider
Posts: 474
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:27 pm

Heretic Level Completion options

Post by Drake Raider »

So. It is known that adding jumping and crouching to Doom engine breaks some levels when it comes to the intended key flow.

Therefore. I am curious, for mechanical reasons, are there any specific levels in Heretic where Jumping or Crouching allows the skipping of Keys?

I have some ideas for how to use this, but A) I don't watch speedruns, and... well, B) I must confess that I have never finushed Heretic and would rather not spoil the level layouts for myself.

Thusly, any answers I guess I should probably ask be more of a mention of the map reference, which key was skipped, and whether jumping or crouching was used.

I figured you all might know better than I.
Hypersonic
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Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2017 3:04 pm

Re: Heretic Level Completion options

Post by Hypersonic »

Switches and trigger lines also function similar to keys, in that you have to goto some spot (whether that spot contains a key or a switch or a trigger line) to open a barrier (such as a door) somewhere else, perhaps this could be expanded to that. Next time I play through I could keep note. Though jumping height and distance and ducking height are somewhat arbitrary.

Doom engine games always had noclipping cheat to skip sections, jump and duck are just some other methods of skipping some sections. You have the option to use it or not use it. I do use noclipping after I clear a level to save time on collecting items.

EDIT:
e5m1: can skip yellow key by jumping up to the green key area
Last edited by Hypersonic on Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:55 am, edited 2 times in total.
Drake Raider
Posts: 474
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:27 pm

Re: Heretic Level Completion options

Post by Drake Raider »

That first point is really good, I like it.

As far as the arbitrariness, I guess I was thinking of default settings.
My line of thought was kind of a "What if I replaced the keys in certain levels with powerups that gave you jumping or crouching abilities?"

Therefore, giving the player different options on finishing the levels.
Hypersonic
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Re: Heretic Level Completion options

Post by Hypersonic »

Interesting thought. In Duke Nukem 3D there are places where you have to use a shrink ray to get to certain areas. Though it would seem strange that you'd need a powerup just to duck and jump. Wings of wrath feels like a special power of flight (like Duke's jetpack), so it doesn't seem as strange. Hexen1/Quake1 had jump, but not duck. Hexen2/Quake2 introduced both duck and jump. Some Quake 3 engine games added 'hand walking' along edges, such as FAKK2 Heavy Metal.

There are places where you sort of jump, moving fast between 2 ledges of the same elevation. Modifying existing levels for duck/jump sounds interesting, I'll be sure to note any sections that can be skipped with duck and jump.
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Ichor
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Re: Heretic Level Completion options

Post by Ichor »

Drake Raider wrote:Therefore. I am curious, for mechanical reasons, are there any specific levels in Heretic where Jumping or Crouching allows the skipping of Keys?
I'm sure there are others, but the one I'm most familiar with is E3M1. If you deliberately get hit with a tornado in the water area with the iron lich, you can get lifted up onto the platform and then exit the level. Of course, I usually use it to just grab the hellstaff down there.
Hypersonic
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Re: Heretic Level Completion options

Post by Hypersonic »

Do you have to jump while getting hit by tornado, or just getting hit by the tornado enough? If rocket jumping didn't hurt so much I bet you could use that to skip sections.
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Ichor
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Re: Heretic Level Completion options

Post by Ichor »

Hypersonic wrote:Do you have to jump while getting hit by tornado, or just getting hit by the tornado enough? If rocket jumping didn't hurt so much I bet you could use that to skip sections.
This could be done in vanilla, which had no jumping. The tornado will lift you up, with no jumping needed.
Drake Raider
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Re: Heretic Level Completion options

Post by Drake Raider »

Duke Nukem 3D was in fact my main inspiration for this idea. I was thinking of ways to make the Doom Engine games play better without losing that identity, and I thought of the Build Engine games and how they, specifically 3D Realm's trilogy, are basically evolutions/expansions on the Doom formula. They don't get rid of any of the elements, but they all add enough new ones to mix some variety and keep it from being quite as repetitious.
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