ZDoom.org Front Page Redesign

Discuss anything ZDoom-related that doesn't fall into one of the other categories.
TGminer
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Re: ZDoom.org Front Page Redesign

Post by TGminer »

Very interesting. Reminds me of the Doomsday engine homepage.
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arookas
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Re: ZDoom.org Front Page Redesign

Post by arookas »

Xaser wrote:With apologies for testing-by-proxy, would someone with an Apple device kindly take a look? I'd love to get this last known bug marked off the list for good.
I tested it on my iPad again (I assume it would be the same for iPhone, sans resolution). The boxes themselves appear fixed (don't quite know why the first is white), but now each is on their own row, taking up quite a bit of vertical real estate:

Image

Might just be they can't fit horizontally, even though the site is using the wide layout. FWIW, the red boxes on the other pages (like mod resources, other ports, etc.) are 100% fine.
Gez
 
 
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Re: ZDoom.org Front Page Redesign

Post by Gez »

What if the width is reduced a smidgen, to say 24% instead of 25%?
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Xaser
 
 
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Re: ZDoom.org Front Page Redesign

Post by Xaser »

That'd be like putting a bandage over a mysterious skin lump. It'd just be hiding a larger problem -- assuming the bandage would even cover it up; there's no guarantee this is even a width issue.

I'm not sure what to do with this at present, since it's impossible for me to self-test it.

[EDIT] ...Or not. I thin I may have managed to score a temporary device. o:

I'll have to fiddle with the live CSS though, so the site may look funky in the near future. Will report back when I'm done mucking about.


[DOUBLE-EDIT] Wheee! I think I got it. Some odd Safari voodoo with the flex-basis property. Hopefully this is all kosher now.
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Atendega
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Re: ZDoom.org Front Page Redesign

Post by Atendega »

Honestly, while the rest of the pages are fine (though it would be nice for there to be some sort of persistent sidebar with useful information or links instead of empty space at the right), the start page is pretty gross. Not necessarily from an aesthetic perspective, but from a design perspective.

The screenshot gallery scales horribly to widescreen resolutions. It just cuts off more and more of the image as it gets wider. It would probably fare better next to some other page element to keep its width in check.

It feels like it's trying way too hard to be "modern" and stylish, at the cost of efficiency. Everything is spread out, resulting in massive areas that are totally unused and empty. Why do I have to scroll down past a massive, irrelevant image of Mars to to get to the rest of the information on the page? Everything is oriented vertically when there's plenty of room to fit more useful information on the page without scrolling.

This sort of design is absolutely style over substance.
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Arctangent
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Re: ZDoom.org Front Page Redesign

Post by Arctangent »

I mean, that's kinda the point. The front page is meant to be the first thing a newcomer sees, so providing them with a bunch of interesting visuals and to-the-point taglines makes a lot more sense than going into various details that may mean absolutely nothing to them. All the substance is meant to be relegated to the other pages, where someone interested in the finer details can read about them.

It's a lot like game progression, actually. It's pretty standard - and for a reason, mind - to start out with impressive, attention-grabbing set pieces and sequences that introduce some pretty basic gameplay, before winding down into purer gameplay sequences that reveal more and more of the game's more advanced mechanics. If they just gave the player the full list of mechanics to start with, they'd be very easily overwhelmed and may just drop it right there from the lack of any real entryway - this kinda why fighting games tend to be niche, since they usually just throw players full-force into the entirety of the game and then proceed to beat the shit out of any newcomer that can't immediately adjust.
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Xaser
 
 
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Re: ZDoom.org Front Page Redesign

Post by Xaser »

@Arctangent: Thanks there -- you've gotten the intent. The Start page is the "n00b page". :P

There's been enough focus on this that I figure it's worth emphasizing+justifying a few very intentional things about the Start page:
  • It's informationally sparse, with big images and lots of padding. We want to tell new users what ZDoom is without overwhelming them with text.
  • It's image-heavy. Those circle icons draw eyes to each section, and it's a clear visual separator between easily-digestible chunks of information.
  • It's "redundant". All information on the Start page can be found elsewhere (e.g. About, News) -- this allows us to keep things simple for new users while still providing detailed descriptions of things on other pages, so nothing's left out. Or, perhaps to better state it: the Start page is a summary of the whole site. Or perhaps an abstract, for the academics in the room. ;)
  • It's "trendy". Not everyone's a fan of the "Every Bootstrap Site Ever"-style layout, but it's a modern trend, and this is a modern revamp of a website for a modern Doom port. Believe it or not, people like this kind of stuff. And again, it's just the start page -- we're not ditching the useful details in favor of single-page blathery. :P
In light of this, even Mars serves a purpose. If it was absent, then the News section creeps into view on large screen sizes, making the thing a lot more informationally dense. Lots of sites achieve this by using a ton of whitespace, but this is more visually interesting, and the Mars image itself may be replaced if a suitable alternative is found.

I'm considering hiding the Mars scroller on mobile devices, though, since the info separation is much less of a concern there. I'd still like something to take that spot though (that isn't just whitespace) so it isn't just a hard cut to News, but frankly, it's the sort of thing likely to be addressed after the initial launch; it's not like we're going to just chuck it up there and say "it's done forever" or anything. :P

The ultimate irony of this is that pretty much by default, folks who see this forum thread are generally not in the target audience for the Start page, since we already familiar with what ZDoom is. I'm not trying to dismiss anyone's opinion here or anything, but do keep in mind I'm taking this into account when looking at feedback.


tl;dr: The Start page doesn't look pretty just for the sake of looking pretty; it does so to make newcomers want to read it. Attention spans are fleeting.
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Atendega
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Re: ZDoom.org Front Page Redesign

Post by Atendega »

I would argue that it can be newcomer-friendly and attractive without being so empty.
http://i.imgur.com/oWUWfPy.png
I mean, it looks good as-is, but the sheer amount of wasted space just makes it feel bloated to me.
Last edited by wildweasel on Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Spoiler tags do not stop large images from loading. They actually make large images harder to view. I've changed the spoiler into a clickable URL instead.
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Kinsie
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Re: ZDoom.org Front Page Redesign

Post by Kinsie »

Atendega wrote:I would argue that it can be newcomer-friendly and attractive without being so empty.
http://i.imgur.com/oWUWfPy.png
I mean, it looks good as-is, but the sheer amount of wasted space just makes it feel bloated to me.
I'm really big on this look.

I can't remember if I mentioned this (I probably have), but I'm also not a huge fan of all the screenshots in the gallery using the same blurry chromatic aberration effect. I feel like having screenshots showcase several different visual settings - software for the E1M1 shot, linear texture filtering in OpenGL in another shot, all the crazy modern lighting and settings in another - would really show the scope of what the ZDoom family can look like.
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Death Egg
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Re: ZDoom.org Front Page Redesign

Post by Death Egg »

Two things... One, any plans to add more source ports to the side on the About page? Two, now that this is basically a hub for GZDoom and QZDoom, what's the point in keeping either of these pages? They'd probably be best to just redirect to zdoom.org now, honestly. No use having to update three sites every time now. (The GZDoom already is missing an update, for example, and QZDoom's doesn't have the last GZDoom release, nor will it ever even have official releases according to Rachael)
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Rachael
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Re: ZDoom.org Front Page Redesign

Post by Rachael »

Death Egg wrote:Two things... One, any plans to add more source ports to the side on the About page?
Depends - any suggestions? Keep in mind the source port will have to be significant in some way, especially if it's significant to ZDoom, we're not going to just add every source port there is.
Death Egg wrote: Two, now that this is basically a hub for GZDoom and QZDoom, what's the point in keeping either of these pages? They'd probably be best to just redirect to zdoom.org now, honestly. No use having to update three sites every time now. (The GZDoom already is missing an update, for example, and QZDoom's doesn't have the last GZDoom release, nor will it ever even have official releases according to Rachael)
The main reason the GZDoom one is missing an update is because we still don't have an Ubuntu version for the point release - I was going to wait until I had that but never realized it would take this long. As far as I am concerned, there very much is a point to keeping those pages, and I do still maintain the downloads page on the GZDoom site.
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Graf Zahl
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Re: ZDoom.org Front Page Redesign

Post by Graf Zahl »

Why keep those pages? I think the best course of action would be to set up a redirect to the ZDoom.org download page and then gradually phasing out the ones at DRDTeam. The main issue is that these are where people go out of habit, i.e. they just don't know better.

The whole setup made sense when zdoom.org was under Randi's control but as things are now I do not really feel there's much need to keep those homepages operational.
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Death Egg
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Re: ZDoom.org Front Page Redesign

Post by Death Egg »

Rachael wrote:
Death Egg wrote:Two things... One, any plans to add more source ports to the side on the About page?
Depends - any suggestions? Keep in mind the source port will have to be significant in some way, especially if it's significant to ZDoom, we're not going to just add every source port there is.
Yeah, I wouldn't want to put ones on there that are redundant or not notable in any way. For example I wouldn't suggest any dead ports (Vavoom, Doom Legacy is just about dead, etc.) or peoples personal ports that are barely notable outside a niche audience. (ReMood, DelphiDoom, Mocha Doom, etc.) I also wouldn't really recommend Odamex or ZDaemon, neither stands out from Zandronum enough really, and ZDaemon has.... issues with the rest of the community. If I were to make suggestions, I would add any of the following:
  • Doom Retro: Currently what I would consider the fastest growing Doom source port. Unlike most advanced source ports it aims for a very specific aesthetic, and only adds features that add on to that aesthetic. Very old school pixelated look that's also a fresh take on Doom.
  • Doomsday: Personally, in my opinion, the best looking port out there currently. They finally reached the landmark 2.0 and have begun forging ahead into new territory.
  • Risen3D: I don't think I would have suggested it in the past, but it's recently been gaining some traction in popularity, especially with the well-recieved UAC Dragon Sector mod that's been released recently.
  • Doom 64 EX: Maybe people will stop asking about Doom 64 for ZDoom/trying to convert Doom 64 to ZDoom for the 100th time when they see a source port exists for it?
  • D-Touch: Surprised this one ISN'T on there, GZDoom on Android and Amazon is a wonderful thing, and it includes two (soon to be three!) other ports as well.
  • GZ3Doom: Kinda surprised this one hasn't been merged into the main port. Virtual Reality is becoming more popular and this is the only Doom source port I know of that does it, plus it's based on GZDoom.
  • ZDoom Legacy Edition: Might be best actually to replace the download for ZDoom in Downloads with this one and put the original ZDoom in the misc. downloads? It's not like it'll be updated again.
  • Sonic Robo Blast 2: Not a Doom source port, but Doom-based and still has a decently sized active fandom that pumps out a good amount of mods. Might be useful for people seeing it on Doomseeker and wondering what it is.
I would also consider any of the ports that focus on the basics, such as Chocolate Doom, (Exact replica of vanilla Doom) Crispy Doom, (Vanilla Doom extended with a bunch of extra nifty features) and prBoom+, (Demo compatibility and the best Boom-based source port) but those might be best noted in a footnote together rather than all given separate boxes.
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Rachael
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Re: ZDoom.org Front Page Redesign

Post by Rachael »

Those are all good suggestions, but in my opinion they require some debate - just because I agree with you on them, doesn't mean everyone else does, and I would like to get people's opinions on them before adding them. That being said, I can make a feature suggestion for it to allow the community to weigh in.
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Enjay
 
 
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Re: ZDoom.org Front Page Redesign

Post by Enjay »

While some of them are certainly relevant to ZDoom, I personally don't think they should all be linked simply because this site is a dedicated ZDoom site, not a general Doom news site.
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