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Discuss anything ZDoom-related that doesn't fall into one of the other categories.

Postby Tormentor667 » Sun Sep 07, 2003 12:57 pm

But, who cares? ;)

JDoom is a "Eye-Candy" port and doesn't need to have software modes.
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Postby MLdB » Sun Sep 07, 2003 1:01 pm

question i could better ask the Jaakko himself... but is he the same guy as the mapper Keränen??? (how many Keränen's do you think there are? it's a miracle there's even one!!)
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Postby David Ferstat » Mon Sep 08, 2003 9:41 am

What would I like to see?

Most, if not all, of my wishes relate to single-player gameplay and scripting, which is where, in my opinion, Zdoom leads the pack.

I'd like to see teams implemented. The Novalogic "Delta Force" series of games use teams in their mission design. Players and friendly AI are all Blue team, enemy AI are Red, and neutrals are Green. This simple feature, when combined with scripting for features like paths, and AI awareness, can make creation of maps/missions far less painful. We'd also need to be able to change a thing's Team on the fly. I recommend checking out these games, and the editors that Novalogic provide with each one, to see just how usable this idea is.

I'd also like to see more access to the currently hard-coded "variables" inside Zdoom.exe. I want access to the missile- and hitscan-generation locations for monsters, so that monsters can fire from their feet or their heads if I want. I want to be able to set the damage for rail-gun slugs.

I want to be able to completely disable monster-infighting. Implementing teams, btw, would make this much easier to achieve.

I want the limits on the frame table removed (or at least expanded dramatically) so that I can add monsters to my heart's content.

Support for crouching, and maybe, crawling. Randy doesn't have to make new sprites; mod creators can do that themselves.

I want to be able to change Player (and perhaps monster) attributes like height, width, mass, speed, and jump height, on the fly.

I'd like to be able to define a selection of different attack and death sequences to monsters, that are chosen at random when required. It's akin to the randomised noises that zombies troopers make.

I'd like to be able to define footstep sounds dependent upon current floor texture.

I want to be able to pass the thing ID of a monster to a script via the crosshair. This would allow the player to use a homing missile, for example.

Monsters with different-cloured blood.

I'd like to be able to define different DEH/BEX lumps for different maps.

Remove (or extend) the 2048 unit restiction on the range of hitscan weapons.

I want a WEAPONS lump, wherein I can define EVERYTHING about the new wepoans that I dream up, including

new weapon sprites (which can be hi-res, of course),

how newly-selected weapons appear on screen (scroll from bottom or sides, fade in or instantly appear,

what sort of attack(s) they use, and

how their projectiles behave.

Naturally, we'd be able to dispense with Doom's original, and infamous, inaccuracy for high-speed projectiles.


On the architecture side of things, I'd have to say that Randy will probably have to replace the current renderer for most, if not all of these, so I ain't holding my breath.

True 3D, so that we may have proper room-over-room. Plus, of course, (semi-)transparent flats.

Decals on floors, ceilings and slopes.

The ability to define what textures, whether horizontal, vertical, or slopes actually get decals. After all, bullet holes on a waterfall look a bit naff. The ability to scroll decals with a surface would also be good.

Support for md2 scenery objects, as seen in "Dark Forces".

Polyobjects that DON'T have to stretch from floor to ceiling. (Perhaps we could use md2s.)

A less restricted freelook.

I'd like scrollers and thrusters to be able to turn on and off, and change, on the fly. For example, I'd like to be able to turn on a conveyor belt, or break a space-station window and have the everything in the room blown out.


It's possible that some of the things that I've asked for may already exist. If so, thank you for your patience in reading about them again.
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Postby Graf Zahl » Mon Sep 08, 2003 10:13 am

Tormentor667 wrote:But, who cares? ;)

JDoom is a "Eye-Candy" port and doesn't need to have software modes.



Which is the reason I don't use it. Just the same old game, it just looks better. No real innovation, however. And when ZDoomGL is finished it will (hopefully) become obsolete... :twisted:
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Postby MLdB » Mon Sep 08, 2003 10:24 am

i strongly vote against true 3d, it's the one bit that definately makes ZDooM more DooM than all the other (succesful) ports!

I do hope someone can figure out how to implement Shadow Warrior's room-over-room into ZDooM.

(for those who don't know how that worked: it works somewhat like a skybox combined with Duke's deep water (where you get transported - as soon as your eyes go below the floor level - to another sector that mimics an underwater environment with a watertexture as ceilingtexture) So the floor of the upper room should not be rendered, instead the 'camera' or ray is transported to the lower-room sector's ceiling where tracing continues and the room is renderen on the floor of the upper level. Also you get transported to that room as soon as your eyes go below the floor level of the upper room. (and vice versa).

question for randy: apart from mirrors as they exist in ZDooM at the moment, is it also possible to have a linespecial that renders another location? like the teleporters in Quake3 show the destination (i'm not asking for the wobble effects from Quake :) just the rendering itself... like the sector's are really there behind that line)
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Postby cccp_leha » Mon Sep 08, 2003 12:12 pm

MLdB wrote:question for randy: apart from mirrors as they exist in ZDooM at the moment, is it also possible to have a linespecial that renders another location? like the teleporters in Quake3 show the destination (i'm not asking for the wobble effects from Quake :) just the rendering itself... like the sector's are really there behind that line)


Well, Cyb kinda did that in Zort 9 or something where you can kinda see the floor "below" through a hole in the floor, using a skybox viewpoint.
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Postby arcticwolf » Mon Sep 08, 2003 12:47 pm

MLdB wrote:question i could better ask the Jaakko himself... but is he the same guy as the mapper Keränen??? (how many Keränen's do you think there are? it's a miracle there's even one!!)


Do you really think so? Just go to finland - I'm not sure exactly how common a name it is, but I think you'll find quite a bunch of people named Keränen there.
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Postby arcticwolf » Mon Sep 08, 2003 12:49 pm

MLdB wrote:i strongly vote against true 3d, it's the one bit that definately makes ZDooM more DooM than all the other (succesful) ports!

I do hope someone can figure out how to implement Shadow Warrior's room-over-room into ZDooM.

(for those who don't know how that worked: it works somewhat like a skybox combined with Duke's deep water (where you get transported - as soon as your eyes go below the floor level - to another sector that mimics an underwater environment with a watertexture as ceilingtexture) So the floor of the upper room should not be rendered, instead the 'camera' or ray is transported to the lower-room sector's ceiling where tracing continues and the room is renderen on the floor of the upper level. Also you get transported to that room as soon as your eyes go below the floor level of the upper room. (and vice versa).

question for randy: apart from mirrors as they exist in ZDooM at the moment, is it also possible to have a linespecial that renders another location? like the teleporters in Quake3 show the destination (i'm not asking for the wobble effects from Quake :) just the rendering itself... like the sector's are really there behind that line)


That would certainly be an interesting effect that I would like to see as well. I'm not sure why you oppose "true 3d" that much, though; I'd hope that it would be optional, with the current renderer continuing to be available, so if you didn't like it, you could just turn it off. ^_~
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Postby MLdB » Mon Sep 08, 2003 1:02 pm

arcticwolf wrote:Do you really think so? Just go to finland - I'm not sure exactly how common a name it is, but I think you'll find quite a bunch of people named Keränen there.


think! i meant in the DooM-scene you dumbass ;)

and we've got the splendid mr. timmy (ZDooMGL) for a true 3D version of ZDooM... so why bother randy with it???
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Postby arcticwolf » Mon Sep 08, 2003 1:40 pm

MLdB wrote:
arcticwolf wrote:Do you really think so? Just go to finland - I'm not sure exactly how common a name it is, but I think you'll find quite a bunch of people named Keränen there.


think! i meant in the DooM-scene you dumbass ;)

and we've got the splendid mr. timmy (ZDooMGL) for a true 3D version of ZDooM... so why bother randy with it???


Why not merge ZDoomGL back into ZDoom so we have a port that has the best of both worlds?
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Postby Kappes Buur » Mon Sep 08, 2003 2:04 pm

arcticwolf wrote:Why not merge ZDoomGL back into ZDoom so we have a port that has the best of both worlds?


Hmmm. Having the best of both worlds, when ZDoom and ZDoomGL have merged into one, would be by specifying at startup one or the other.
So, essentially, the way it is now?? :shock:
.
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Postby arioch » Mon Sep 08, 2003 2:04 pm

That would be something to consider for the future, an off-in-the-distance target.

However, timmie is doing a perfectly good job with ZDoomGL in tracking the updates randy has been doing in the latest round of ZDoom 2.0.x betas.

So if you desire that functionality now, why don't you just pick up ZDoomGL instead?
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Postby Hirogen2 » Mon Sep 08, 2003 2:33 pm

David Ferstat wrote:I'd like to be able to define footstep sounds dependent upon current floor texture.

I think this is possible with the TERRAIN lump. Not sure though. At least stepping into a liquid listed in TERRAIN makes a splash.
I want to be able to pass the thing ID of a monster to a script via the crosshair. This would allow the player to use a homing missile, for example.

2 homing function: A modified frame pointer for the player (Dehacked code pointer or such) could do the job. (Auto-home, not-directed-by-the-player)

Naturally, we'd be able to dispense with Doom's original, and infamous, inaccuracy for high-speed projectiles.

If I may add, a possibility to make pellets and bullets not instant-hit, to create an effect à La Bullet Time -not really heh- but more of a delayed death <- Not without a reason, HV bullets are called HV! (cmp. Ghost in the shell)
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Re: Blood, I want differant coloured blood! :-D

Postby Carnevil » Thu Sep 11, 2003 5:45 am

arcticwolf wrote:ZDoomGL and Skulltag may offer features that vanilla ZDoom doesn't have, but as was already said, that's not a reason for ZDoom not having them. If anything, it probably means that the developers of ZDoom, ZDoomGL and Skulltag should get together and recombine their efforts into a single, highly-advanced port.


I don't think Randy is interested in a port that adds data (levels, skins, etc.) to the game.
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Re: Blood, I want differant coloured blood! :-D

Postby Hirogen2 » Thu Sep 11, 2003 8:33 am

Carnevil wrote:
arcticwolf wrote:ZDoomGL and Skulltag may offer features that vanilla ZDoom doesn't have, but as was already said, that's not a reason for ZDoom not having them. If anything, it probably means that the developers of ZDoom, ZDoomGL and Skulltag should get together and recombine their efforts into a single, highly-advanced port.


I don't think Randy is interested in a port that adds data (levels, skins, etc.) to the game.
Yes right, but the code parts. ("I do not need the skulltag levels to make one")
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