The New Romero Stuff Dump: DoomEd, Map Sources etc.

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The New Romero Stuff Dump: DoomEd, Map Sources etc.

Postby Kinsie » Wed Apr 22, 2015 3:56 am

Romero visited Doomworld again and bestowed upon us a new bounty: The DoomEd source, the source DoomEd map files for all the official maps (plus some leftovers), and various graphics folders!

I went delving through the map sources some using an old DOS tool called IDBSP. Thanks to Graf for pointing that out. If you want IDBSP to work with the dwd files, you'll need to add "level:E1M1" (or some other valid Doom 1 map lump name - Doom 2 won't work) to the DWD file using Notepad++ or something.

Now then, here's what I've found so far. Thanks to Edward850, TerminusEst13 and Xaser for egging me on as I went.

DOOM1:

E5M1:
Spoiler:

(first shot is a blend of lightamp turned on and off since it was very dark)

SHAWN2: What appears to be a LESS detailed(?) version of E1M11 from the 0.4 alpha.
Image

SHAWNMAP: A simple spiral staircase.

DOOM2:
MAP33: Empty. Just headers.
MAP34: The v1.9 version of MAP02.
MAP35: A very slightly altered version of American McGee's IDMAP01 on /idgames/. A couple of catwalks are wider.
MAP36: An elevator with exits at various levels. Presumably a test map.
RANDY1: Empty. Just a header.
SHITMAP: Two untextured rooms linked by an untextured door.

OLD/MAP33: I'm not sure what Id was going for here, but it didn't work.
Spoiler:


NOTUSED/COMM1: A basic prototype of MAP28. Lots of basic geometry and scrolling textures.
Spoiler:


NOTUSED/COMM2: Refuelling Base, before Id really renovated it from it's Doom Alpha origins.
Image

NOTUSED/COMM3: Just headers.

NOTUSED/COMM4: Just headers.

NOTUSED/COMM5: No player 1 start.

NOTUSED/COMM6: Two rooms joined together by a staircase. When you enter the second room the way back seals behind you.

TEMP/MAP01: Chainsaw area is replaced with a new starting location, that leads to the "normal" starting location.
Image
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Re: The New Romero Stuff Dump: DoomEd, Map Sources etc.

Postby edward850 » Wed Apr 22, 2015 4:01 am

It's worth pointing out how old this data is. It single handedly became the oldest (identifiable) files sitting on my hard-drive. Normally this kind of stuff ends up long since discarded.
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Re: The New Romero Stuff Dump: DoomEd, Map Sources etc.

Postby The Zombie Killer » Wed Apr 22, 2015 4:22 am

Just dropped Romero an email asking if it's at all possible for him to release the raw dev folders for Doom & Doom II
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Re: The New Romero Stuff Dump: DoomEd, Map Sources etc.

Postby GooberMan » Wed Apr 22, 2015 4:49 am

I'm curious as to whether DoomEd still compiles on OSX.
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Re: The New Romero Stuff Dump: DoomEd, Map Sources etc.

Postby Snarboo » Wed Apr 22, 2015 5:10 am

Kinsie wrote:OLD/MAP33: I'm not sure what Id was going for here, but it didn't work.
Spoiler:
Was id attempting to make a 3D bridge here? Something about the construction of this map seems to imply they were messing around with Doom's limits.
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Re: The New Romero Stuff Dump: DoomEd, Map Sources etc.

Postby Kinsie » Wed Apr 22, 2015 6:00 am

So, here's what I'm tooling with right now.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/258 ... d2temp.zip

d2temp_raw is the map files from doom2map/temp, untouched. They're obviously older, unfinished versions of the Doom 2 IWAD maps, and they're very interesting as a result. A couple of maps also have some nasty and weird BSP bugs (MAP02 especially)

d2temp_cleansed is an attempt to fix those minor bugs that also bundles in sgtbaldy's Doom 1 texture pack from realm667 (since the maps still use a lot of doom 1 textures) while changing as little else as I can. Some textures are still missing, which I think means I'm gonna have to dip into the texture dump Romero posted and figure something out. Outside of these minor compiler bugs and adding missing textures, I want to change as little as possible - this is a slight restoration of a snapshot of Id's development process, not my own project. Maybe I'll add a titlepic, but that's it.

If you have any suggestions, or discoveries, or just wanna lol at the state of map28, go ahead. Otherwise, enjoy!
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Re: The New Romero Stuff Dump: DoomEd, Map Sources etc.

Postby Arctangent » Wed Apr 22, 2015 6:15 am

Man, just a cursory glimpse at the MAP01 changes is stunning. Especially the fact that what would become the hallway to the shotgun switch instead takes you to the secret alcove at the start. Apparently, DWANGO5 and its ilk weren't far off.

Oh yeah and the textures. Man the textures.

EDIT: ahahaha chaingunners in map02 that's fun - and the red key bars open individually that's hilarious

EDIT 2: AHAHAHAHA ARACHNOTRON IN MAP03 OH BOY

though man I kind of prefer it textured this way to be honest - oh a bfg in the well I'm guessing this map wasn't the third map during its development

EDIT 3: wait the chaingun in map03 used to be a plasma rifle

this definitely wasn't map03 until later in development

Yeah the end-of-the-map demons ... aren't. Baron, Arachnotron, and Mancubus oh my. Makes sense for the hell textures then.

EDIT 4: Imp trap is still imps, though, hilarious enough. And the arachnotron box doesn't lower, so they can't even get out unless you provoke them. And ... MAP04 is The Catacombs, huh.

EDIT 5: Don't quite remember The Catacombs being so marble-y and I think I remember it having Revenants, but otherwise seems pretty much the same aside from some missing textures. Then again, don't really remember The Catacombs that well. The Waste Tunnels are in fact the Waste Tunnels.

EDIT 6: Waste Tunnels still hilarious skippable with jumping. I wouldn't really know much about the map anyway, so I couldn't tell you how it's changed except for the end of map Cacodemons now being the introduction to Pain Elementals. The Crusher is ... different.

The start is completely changed. Got to the signature crushing room, crusher isn't activated by the lift switch and instead the lift switch actually works the lift. Working the lift ... starts the crusher. huh.

EDIT 7: JUMPING OFF LIFT SUMMONS THE LEGIONS OF ZOMBIES ABOVE IT OH GOSH

EDIT 8: Lots of familiar geometry, but it's all very different. Lots more curves, the stairway room has no wall closets ( still no Revenants? ), outside plaza place is pretty different and has a manc instead of a knight and links back to the start, and the final room of the release version just doesn't exist. Very interesting. Also, as a side note, most levels end with teleporters, some still end with switches but mostly teleporters. Aaaaand ... that wasn't the end of the level.

EDIT 9: That was the end of the level. Just ... took me to an extra room with the real exit teleporter. Okay. Dead Simple is very simple.

EDIT 10: Dead Simple is very simple. Boxes with doors with a different box at the far end, opening the far end box opens the rest, manc in the nearest arachs in the others. Very simple to beat, boxes full of goodies. No exit though, so have to cheat. Kind of like the concept, though, might try to do a remake of it soon. Tricks and Traps looks very much the same.

EDIT 11: Tricks and Traps seems very release-state, aside from some different textures, although I just went the speedrunner's way. The Pit looks very similar, too.

EDIT 12: At this point is seemed like most levels were in their release state with some different textures, so I sped through them. But the Catacombs looks very different - makes sense, since it showed up earlier. Let's see how this goes.

EDIT 13: SHIT THAT'S PLUTONIA-LEVEL CHAINGUNNER USAGE.

EDIT 14: Ignoring that, this is actually a really cool map. You start off by going into a flesh-and-spine tunnel, and end up in some sort of hub that leads to a lot of rooms that look straight out of The Spirit World ( in fact, I think that's where they come from ). Except ... I can't find the rest of the map. Map cheating reveals that it's there, but I can't find the triggers to open the doors. Clipping through reveals more spine tunnels and DAMNIT THAT'S CHAINGUNNERS HIDDEN BEHIND TWO-SIDED LINES

EDIT 15: DAMNIT I HEARD A MANC BUT I CAN'T SEE IT

EDIT 16: oh good it wasn't hidden in the wall. This part is actually really cool, wall chaingunners aside. It's more of these spinal tunnels with cool-looking doors that lead to rooms with keys, although I don't know where I need to use these keys. Further exploration leads to the Spirit World throne room, which really makes me think this map was scrapped and reworked into that map. And Courtyard-esque teleporter trap, yay.

EDIT 17: Fortunately my opposition with completely inept. Was tossed into an organic-looking maze with nothing more threatening than a chaingunner in a room with lots of cover. Funnily enough, the trap is repeatable. Now I'm in a wooden-looking place where I can actually use the keys I've gotten to open doors.

EDIT 18: ... and the blue door lead me to a room that locked itself back up again to trap me in a maze full of supplies and lost souls where I had to hunt down a switch to get out. Turns out the exit was on the other side, behind a normal lift and past a small blood pool. Huh. Did not find anywhere to use the red key and still baffled how I was supposed to get there, though looking at the map the door to the teleport trap was blue-locked so ... yay? Bloodfalls is the Abandoned Mines, the Abandoned Mines is Monster Condo, Monster Condo is the Spirit World, Spirit World is Living End ... devoid of enemies, and apparently the mountain in the center has its top lopped off. Huh.

EDIT 19: Yeah the level is heavily work in progress, can't even progress past the first real segment. The Living End ... is a Wolfenstein level, apparently.

EDIT 20: Early version of Grosse with no Nazis, only the plasma secret ( which isn't a secret ), and no way to beat it - the Keens aren't there, nor any exit triggers. MAP30 is a version of Bloodfalls that manages to seem both less and more finished than the retail version. Well.

And that's it. Very interesting, but ultimately kind of boring to grind through. Do really like the Catacombs, though; I'd love to see it used as the basis for an actual level, it's theme is just kind of delicious and it's fairly interesting, shame it didn't make it in.
Last edited by Arctangent on Wed Apr 22, 2015 7:13 am, edited 13 times in total.
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Re: The New Romero Stuff Dump: DoomEd, Map Sources etc.

Postby The Zombie Killer » Wed Apr 22, 2015 6:40 am

Decided to check out Dead Simple and...
Ew. Can't even beat it by the looks of it.

This stuff is really freaking interesting though, a nice glimpse into the game's development.

Edit: from #vr IRC:

Code: Select allExpand view
<TheZombieKiller> Tricks and Traps only differs in texturework
<TheZombieKiller> same for the pit
<TheZombieKiller> and refuelling base
<TheZombieKiller> refueling*
<TheZombieKiller> and o of destruction
<TheZombieKiller> the factory too
<TheZombieKiller> Downtown has what seems to be a port
<TheZombieKiller> the large structure in The Chasm is normally made of acid right?
<TheZombieKiller> in this it's made of BIGDOOR by the looks of it
<marrub> pfft
<TheZombieKiller> The Spirit World is... different
<TheZombieKiller> and completely devoid of enemies
<TheZombieKiller> map29 is... map32
<TheZombieKiller> with wrong textures
<TheZombieKiller> and only one enemy (the cyberdemon)
<TheZombieKiller> the ending area is broken
<TheZombieKiller> Icon of Sin is COMPLETELY different
<TheZombieKiller> and broken it seems
<TheZombieKiller> map31 has all the nazis replaced with chaingunners
<TheZombieKiller> the secret area near the pole with heads on it is missing
<TheZombieKiller> actually it's there
<TheZombieKiller> but inaccessible
<TheZombieKiller> and horribly messed up
<TheZombieKiller> the secret exit lacks the second pushwall
<TheZombieKiller> map32 is final except killing the commander keens has no effect and there are no nazis
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Re: The New Romero Stuff Dump: DoomEd, Map Sources etc.

Postby wildweasel » Wed Apr 22, 2015 7:49 am

This is big stuff and needs to not be lost, so I've punted it up to General.
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Re: The New Romero Stuff Dump: DoomEd, Map Sources etc.

Postby Caligari87 » Wed Apr 22, 2015 8:03 am

Man, I'm really digging what Romero's doing with all this old stuff. I hope none of it falls through the cracks anywhere, because it's pretty freaking awesome both from an archivalist perspective, and completeness.

On a side note, any pure-vanilla patches for the extra enemy rotations he released a while back? I wouldn't mind having those all ported in without any extras like Smooth Doom. Of course, if they were cool enough to release an official IWAD update, that would be even better, lol.

8-)
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Re: The New Romero Stuff Dump: DoomEd, Map Sources etc.

Postby Marrub » Wed Apr 22, 2015 8:10 am

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/263 ... leaned.zip
I've ripped and converted all the lbm, bbm, etc files and anything I could get out of the WADs with SLADE.
There's some very cool stuff here.
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Re: The New Romero Stuff Dump: DoomEd, Map Sources etc.

Postby Kinsie » Wed Apr 22, 2015 9:24 am

I did further work on the d2temp_cleansed mod by deleting SgtBaldy's Doom1-to-Doom2 texture stuff and doing it myself. This reduced file size a little and fixed some annoying issues that were making PRBoom angry.

There are six textures missing from the maps after the Doom1 ones:
SWMOD1
WOOD11
ASHWALL5
MIDWIND1
BIGBRHED
TANROCK6

If anyone has any idea as to the best way to tackle this, please speak up - I'm currently a little frazzled.
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Re: The New Romero Stuff Dump: DoomEd, Map Sources etc.

Postby Kinsie » Wed Apr 22, 2015 10:10 am

GooberMan wrote:I'm curious as to whether DoomEd still compiles on OSX.
It doesn't, but Fraggle's working on a port.
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Re: The New Romero Stuff Dump: DoomEd, Map Sources etc.

Postby Xeotroid » Wed Apr 22, 2015 10:51 am

Did he mention that the unused textures can be used in mods? Those switches and pictograms look pretty good, and the flesh eye that is used as a switch in final game has some cool patches like bloody variant or opened looking to sides. Or those sprites, does anyone know what those stones with red markings on them are supposed to do? They are named POW1 - POW5A0, so some power-ups, of course, but I can't think of anything you could do with them.
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Re: The New Romero Stuff Dump: DoomEd, Map Sources etc.

Postby GooberMan » Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:34 am

Kinsie wrote:
GooberMan wrote:I'm curious as to whether DoomEd still compiles on OSX.
It doesn't, but Fraggle's working on a port.

I would pitch in if I had an OSX environment.

Once it's running on OSX and we can see the behaviour it requires though, I can assist in porting to other platforms.

(Of course, that still requires me to actually get the OK from my employer to do that, but that's just a small thing in the scheme of things)
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