Does anyone play without Brutal Doom?

[darbyjack]

It's interesting you say that because I usually don't rip and tear too much in Brutal Doom, the weapons are much more powerful and I usually end up crouching a lot (to the extent that the shitty ctrl key, which I use for crouching, is broken and doesn't always register me pressing it! It is a shitty laptop keyboard though)

[justin_see]

Many people are jealous of Sgt Mark and use the "incident" to discredit him, at least that is the way it looks from an impartial perspective. As far as mods go, everyone has a different taste. Even if you don't like the project you could appreciate the work and time that went into it. I don't really play games too much but it is nice to see that someone has created something that gained such a following.

[darbyjack]

Yeah some of the YouTube videos and web discussions against him are ridiculous in my opinion... Ridiculous but amusing at the same time

[ThomsonI]

I played though Doom the Way Id Did with it, and it's partially responsible for getting back into trying to do a Doom mod, and while there were some fun moments, it does tend to limit certain play styles (granted, so does the original). Zdoom's almost has the capacity for Fallout 3/NV or Deus Ex style customized gameplay, so cranking default run-n-gun gameplay up to 11 (and making all the weapons faster and more powerful) is only fun for so long.

Oh, and it does tend to completely unbalance multiplayer. Vanilla doom, a buddy of mine would've been able to take me out with the BFG at least a couple of times when I was running around with the berserker pack. Brutal? Nope, after the score got to like 60/1 in my favor on one level, he spent the rest of the game sneaking to the exit whenever he realize there was a berserker pack in the level.

[XCVG]

I like Brutal Doom, but it isn't the only way I play. If I just want shoot-everything carnage to occupy a few minutes of my time, Brutal Doom is usually my go-to mod. I've played with other weapon/gameplay mods but none of them really held my interest for long. My favorite mods are total and partial conversions with scripting and story that totally change the experience, also good humour mods. I get bored with vanilla-style maps very quickly.

[Popsoap]

Many people are jealous of Sgt Mark

This is a cancerous mindset to hold, because it is false. People criticize the mod because of the design decisions behind it; and overall attitude of the author.

and use the "incident" to discredit him

I'll assume you are referring to the suicide avocation incident. That incident did enrage many people, but even more (myself included) were already angry from events prior.

at least that is the way it looks from an impartial perspective.

The second part (discrediting) of the argument might be impartial, the first part (jealousy) is hardly impartial.

[darbyjack]

Well what's done is done now, no point talking about it. Especially now that I've seen how much of a shitstorm it's created. If anyone has any other interesting wads to bring to my attention, feel free to do so

[Sergeant_Mark_IV]

Many people are jealous of Sgt Mark

This is a cancerous mindset to hold, because it is false. People criticize the mod because of the design decisions behind it; and overall attitude of the author.

No, it's not. You really don't see the difference between criticism and bashing. I am yet to see a list that points out all these "bad design decisions" that everyone loves to talk about, and also suggest ways how to solve them. But why have I never seen this list anywhere? Because it doesn't exists! Nobody really wants to point out problems and help me to solve them. These people only wants to see me and my mods out of Doom community. All the critics of Brutal Doom says is "Brutal Doom is bad because I don't like it, because it ruins the gameplay of the shitty slaughtermaps that I love so much, Sergeant Mark IV is a nazi that told a kid to kill himself (a kid that is 18 years-old), anyone who plays Brutal Doom must be a 12 year old that never played Doom before, you shouldn't play it, dont play it! I TOLD YOU TO DONT PLAY IT! BRUTAL DOOM IS CALL OF DOOTY! PLAY "X MOD" INSTEAD! I am right, you are wrong, end of story.".

Honestly this sounds very jelly to me.

[wildweasel]

This is precisely the reason I hoped it could be kept to PM. We do not need this reignited.

[Sergeant_Mark_IV]

I am sorry for bringing this up again wildweasel, I know that I shouldn't be posting on this topic at all, but I really, really, really wanted to someday see such list as I mentioned on my post above.

[wildweasel]

Keep it to PM.

[Xaser]

Hmm, the title & OP are sentiments that always scare me a little bit as a mapper, because that suggests the view that my maps are supposed to be balanced toward some particular mod rather than the original game (which is, of course, what I intend them for nowadays). This isn't endemic to Brutal Doom -- it applies to all gameplay mods, including my own, though the topic tends to come up with BD more than most because of its popularity.

Not that it should ever folks to not try, though, so long as they know it's a "play at your own risk" situation. I just find it highly counterproductive when folks do things like post an /idgames review of a map stating it's too hard and then concluding it with "I'm playing with AEoD by the way".

[darbyjack]

Ah yes you did XenDynamics right? Impressive stuff Don't think that'd work with Brutal Doom lol

[Eric_]

strawmen: the post

Holy shit, you're so fucking stupid. How many times do you have to be told that none of brutal doom's critics are, have ever been, or will ever be jealous, of you, your mod, or your mod's success. Do you need to be told why? Okay.

Let's start with you. You're the biggest internet douchebag I could name off the top of my head. You're rude to your fans. You don't thank the people that contributed 90% of your mod's content. You barely even credit them, only listing their names and then hiding it on a second F1 screen where nobody would think to look. You tell people to kill themselves, provide instructions on how to do so, and then proceed to throw in a Holocaust joke, because you weren't being enough of an asshole already. You leave racist comments in your mod. When called on your shit, you backtrack at the speed of light and claim that "IT'S JUST A JOKE, YOU JUST DON'T GET MY INCREDIBLY WITTY HUMOR", every single time. You couldn't even make an honest apology for your fuck-up and got banned from Zandronum's forums for it. You somehow managed to avoid getting banned from here, even though this was Ground Zero for the whole shitfest. I cannot think of a single reason someone would be jealous of you. Pity, perhaps, but not jealousy.

Now let's move on to your mod. The legendary Brutal Doom. The BEST MOD OF ALL TIME, VANILLA 2.0, DOOM THE WAY IT WAS MEANT TO BE, all those other stupid titles it's been given. It's gotten ModDB awards, Cacowards, and articles from Kotaku and PC Gamer. As far as I know, it's the most popular Doom mod to date (perhaps MM8BDM outperformed it in its prime, but that was a standalone game and had an almost completely separate fanbase). With so many awards, it must be something special, right? Something above and beyond anything else, especially if it's as flawless as you believe. And yet, it's really...not. It's an above-average gameplay mod with enough features from modern FPS to make the kids that play those games feel right at home. There's a particularly worrying emphasis on torture and ridiculously excessive violence, almost like you were bullied in school (but not quite at the level of insanity as our best buddies Klebold and Harris) and this is your way of venting, as it were. But I won't push this matter, because it's ultimately irrelevant. Back to the mod. The weapons are alright. Probably the best overall part of the mod. Some of them can be rather satisfying to use, and they aren't poorly animated. That's really where the good parts end. The balance is all over the place - the rifle, shotgun, and rocket launcher are very overpowered, the SSG is decent, the minigun is nearly useless due to it getting stuck on the first enemy in a crowd for no reason other than to torture the defeated opponent, the plasma rifle is just acceptable, and the BFG's explosive nature prevents it from being used to its fullest potential. That about covers it for the weapons. The enemies are, again, hit-and-miss. Due to their slowed movement speed and having a headshot hitbox the size of your ego, Cyberdemons are little more than target practice for rocket launchers. Many of the high-tier enemies suffer similar headshot issues. The weak enemies have their own problems. Zombiemen have no right being fast enough to dodge rockets, it doesn't make sense, what you did isn't even anything special - little more than input reading, really, yet you touted it as "the most advanced AI ever made for Doom". Archvile fire follows you even when you get out of sight - why? This doesn't make any sense at all, and really only confuses the player, because they can't really know if they're actually safe. I could go on and on about the monsters, but I'd rather move on. I can't even sum up the sounds in any short way. They're all over the place. The guns are really quiet, like every weapon has a suppressor attached. The enemy's screams of pain, however, are incredibly loud, and there's no way to make them stop once they start besides just waiting it out. The taunts, with all due respect to Zero X. Diamond, are cringeworthy at best, alt-f4 inducing at worst. He did a good job, it's just that the lines are from the Doom comic, so they're really cheesy, but they're being said completely seriously and it's just horrible. I don't think I have anything more to say about the sound. Now, let's say I'm one of your thousands of adoring fans, but I have a neat idea that I think would be really cool in Brutal Doom. I consult the ZDoom wiki, learn DECORATE's ins and outs, maybe learn a little bit of ACS, too. I open Brutal Doom to get some necessary information related to my great idea. My mind melts, because the mod is terribly organized, the code makes me want to vomit just looking at it, and everything's generally a mess. Seriously, hire a cleaning crew, because it's just awful in there. Still, there might be something here to be jealous of. The sprites? Wait, no, those are mostly other people's work. The VA? Not you, and he's not even credited. The sounds are poor. There's just nothing to be jealous of here. I tried, I really did.

Okay, let's take a breather real quick, because that was a lot of words. Wow. My hands are probably going to be sore in the morning.

Okay. Ready? We're going back in.

One last subject I want to touch upon, and another thing you love to spout about, and that's what Brutal Doom has allegedly done for the community. What do you claim that it's done? It brought tons of new players to Doom - while this is true, I suspect it was the aforementioned Kotaku and PC Gamer articles that had to do with this more so than the mod itself. Furthermore, while this is not always the case, many of these new players just play Brutal Doom and nothing else, and go around complaining that mapsets are impossible due to BD's changes, or that a mod doesn't work because they're trying to load it with Brutal Doom. Not the finest addition to the Doom community. You also claim that it's brought a lot of new modders to the scene. Again, true, but the mods they make are just for Brutal Doom and oftentimes pretty bad. This playerbase is evidently not worth your respect, seeing as you've lashed out at them in the past. The rest of the Doom community doesn't exactly look highly upon them, either. So, what has Brutal Doom really done for the Doom community? It's brought in a ton of kids whose first and only experience with Doom is Brutal Doom, it's caused a ridiculous divide among the players, and it's generally brought nothing but hostility and bad times for everyone involved. When even you want little to do with your playerbase, I highly doubt anyone's going to be jealous of that. I'm certainly not.

Now, if you would so kindly never use this awful strawman ever again, that would be lovely. Have a nice day.

[wildweasel]

I should have figured this would happen eventually. I'm killing the thread before it gets any more goddamn worse.

[edit] And for the record: Sarge is now banned for things that happened in and relating to this thread.