To Jump Or Not To Jump In ZDoom SP WADS

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Re: To Jump Or Not To Jump In ZDoom SP WADS

Postby Enjay » Sat Oct 27, 2012 3:19 pm

Doctor-Dos wrote:Unless you have new sprites of a wheelchair bound space marine!

You know someone is bound to do that now.
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Re: To Jump Or Not To Jump In ZDoom SP WADS

Postby Doctor-Dos » Sat Oct 27, 2012 3:22 pm

:surprise:

621e2b650a0a006400a0afab08250947.JPG
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Re: To Jump Or Not To Jump In ZDoom SP WADS

Postby Enjay » Sat Oct 27, 2012 3:30 pm

:shock:

Looks like the starting point for one of these.
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Re: To Jump Or Not To Jump In ZDoom SP WADS

Postby Doctor-Dos » Sat Oct 27, 2012 3:36 pm

Ha Ha Ha!

He couldn't jump...

The power wheelchair would explain how the space-marine can carry all of those weapons and ammo!
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Re: To Jump Or Not To Jump In ZDoom SP WADS

Postby Blue Shadow » Sat Oct 27, 2012 7:40 pm

Doctor-Dos wrote:ZDoom maps should be made jump-compatible.

What next? If I make a ZDoom map, then I have to use ACS? :?

Seriously, I don't really care if you hop around like a bunny. I don't have to make the map jump-compatible for you or anyone else if I don't want to.
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Re: To Jump Or Not To Jump In ZDoom SP WADS

Postby FDARI » Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:45 am

Of course you don't have to, but indeed it does often feel contrived when jump is disabled in technically advanced maps. I think it is because disabling jump seems to be a vanilla-preservation method, and it is out of place if there's no more vanilla to it than that.

Also, I do sometimes struggle with immersion in a game where every fence is just too large to be stepped over - did I mention that already? Sorry ultra-fast-super-marine-with-insane-durability; you'll have to walk around this. Great for puzzles, though. (Killing cyberdemons in unusual ways.)

I'd be happier if the fence was so high that jumping would not suffice. But then, how must the fences look to satisfy my demand for immersiveness once zdoom implements climbing? (Note: Not serious as a feature, although I have rudimentary/clumsy&hacky climbing in one version at home.) Every fence would have to satisfy unclimbability requirements in order to explain why I just don't climb over it.

The point of the preceding paragraph, should it not be obvious, is that while jump-restrictions can break immersion, the game is unrealistic on many levels, and most of them we do accept. Inability to jump seems non-immersive perhaps because we have had access to it as a standard feature for so long that we honestly feel that Doomguy is able to jump. That and... jumping is such a simple operation. The ability to jump is prevalent in gaming. And it simply looks like something you should be able to do. If legs you have.

It's not that I think you should support jumping. It's that not being able to jump feels very strange. (Edit, Forgotten emphasis: Feels very strange only when it feels like a misplaced vanilla throwback. In actual vanilla maps I don't jump. Unless I'm running game-changing mods like hideous destructor and need to minimise damage from a nukage trek.)
Last edited by FDARI on Mon Oct 29, 2012 9:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: To Jump Or Not To Jump In ZDoom SP WADS

Postby Blue Shadow » Mon Oct 29, 2012 9:02 am

FDARI wrote:It's that not being able to jump feels very strange.

Probably to you and others, but not to me. I got used to not being able to jump in Doom that I don't find myself using it at all, except where it's needed, of course.
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Re: To Jump Or Not To Jump In ZDoom SP WADS

Postby Doctor-Dos » Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:31 pm

Blue Shadow wrote:
FDARI wrote:It's that not being able to jump feels very strange.

Probably to you and others, but not to me. I got used to not being able to jump in Doom that I don't find myself using it at all, except where it's needed, of course.


Why would you jump when it wasn't needed?
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Re: To Jump Or Not To Jump In ZDoom SP WADS

Postby Enjay » Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:41 pm

If we only did things we needed to do, life would be pretty dull. ;)
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Re: To Jump Or Not To Jump In ZDoom SP WADS

Postby Blue Shadow » Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:06 pm

Doctor-Dos wrote:Why would you jump when it wasn't needed?

Tactical jumping. For instance, to avoid enemies by climbing to a higher ground and such then shoot them from where you are like a coward :P .
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Re: To Jump Or Not To Jump In ZDoom SP WADS

Postby Gez » Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:15 pm

Or climbing on the enemies themselves and crowdsurfing to safety. It works fine with demon mobs. Sure, you'll probably get chewed a bit while doing so, but no more than if you had let yourself be surrounded.

Also, to use shortcuts. I don't jump to break maps, but if I want to backtrace and I can go back to an area I already explored legitimately with a jump or a crouch instead of having to go all the way around ten corridors, twenty doors and five elevators, I will.
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Re: To Jump Or Not To Jump In ZDoom SP WADS

Postby FDARI » Mon Oct 29, 2012 3:48 pm

On one occasion, I was surprised by a monster and instinctively pressed jump instead of fire. Then I died laughing. (Well, doomguy died.)

Usually I would not jump needlessly. But sometimes there is apparent need to jump (perceived destination on/beyond higher ground, can't step up). As I have come to see doomguy as jump capable, I will in those situations find it strange that he shall choose the road more traveled by monsters, rather than jump a teensy little fence and complete his mission in five seconds. (And if jumping isn't disabled, I'll traverse that obstacle, finish the level, wonder why it was so easy and play it again without jumping just to see if I'm in some vanilla-ish flavour of Doom. And that obstacle will say to me "Doomguy obstacle course. The knee is the limit!")
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Re: To Jump Or Not To Jump In ZDoom SP WADS

Postby Enjay » Mon Oct 29, 2012 4:27 pm

Gez wrote:Also, to use shortcuts. I don't jump to break maps, but if I want to backtrace and I can go back to an area I already explored legitimately with a jump or a crouch instead of having to go all the way around ten corridors, twenty doors and five elevators, I will.

That's my most common use for jumping in non-jumping maps.
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Re: To Jump Or Not To Jump In ZDoom SP WADS

Postby NeuralStunner » Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:11 pm

Gez wrote:Or climbing on the enemies themselves and crowdsurfing to safety. It works fine with demon mobs. Sure, you'll probably get chewed a bit while doing so, but no more than if you had let yourself be surrounded.

Also, to use shortcuts. I don't jump to break maps, but if I want to backtrace and I can go back to an area I already explored legitimately with a jump or a crouch instead of having to go all the way around ten corridors, twenty doors and five elevators, I will.
Yes yes.

Additionally, I sometimes use Crouch to duck Revenant missiles.
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Re: To Jump Or Not To Jump In ZDoom SP WADS

Postby Enjay » Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:14 pm

I like running over the tops of barrels. Don't know why.
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