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Re: Oculus Rift support in GZDooM

Postby Nash » Fri Jul 05, 2013 11:06 am

This thread should be moved to General Discussion...
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Re: Oculus Rift support in GZDooM

Postby Indecom » Fri Jul 05, 2013 11:08 am

At this moment it's not the cheapest accessory, no. But there are people willing to pay 500 dollars for next gen experience, or 600 dollars for a new graphics card. By the time the consumer model comes out, it will have a higher density display, positional tracking, maybe even cameras, and it will likely be even cheaper than the devkit. This is one of those things where when you try it, you instantly believe that 300 dollars is completely reasonable.

@WildWeasel: If you want to move this thread that's fine too. I think this stopped being a feature suggestion ages ago. Besides, I plan to try to implement it myself.
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Re: Oculus Rift support in GZDooM

Postby Enjay » Fri Jul 05, 2013 11:18 am

Graf Zahl wrote:@Blasko

Second, some people have vision problems that make it impossible to tolerate that for an extended period ic time. So please do not pretend you know better than those people.


Indecom wrote:@Graf, I understand where you're coming from, and I understand that this is something that you don't want to add to the source. But i can guarantee you that what Blazko has said is 100% true.


Actually, there are many eye and visual defects that can make even Occulus-like 3D systems unusable and/or unpleasant to try and use. I'm not saying that this alone is enough to mean support shouldn't be added (there are many medical conditions, for example, that make using a mouse impossible).

However, it is possibly worth acknowledging that I personally agree with Graf. I dislike all the 3D systems that I have seen and tried, find them to be little more than of novelty value and providing a poorer experience than their 2D buddies. It would be little skin off my nose for there to be Occulus support in GZDoom. It would just mean some extra baggage in the exe that I would be highly unlikely to need or want. It might be interesting to play a game intended for VR using the Occulus but I strongly suspect that, if it was in GZDoom, I would try it once "just to see" and then never use it again. If they are to do any GZDoom development work at all, I'd much rather that Graf (and others) invested their development time in something with wider appeal and more immediate and practical use that more users/modders could take advantage of and mean that the experience of playing and modding was improved for many people in a more useful way.
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Re: Oculus Rift support in GZDooM

Postby Indecom » Fri Jul 05, 2013 11:24 am

I agree, there are probably a hundred more useful things that could be added to improve the experience for a wider range of users. I have no problems admitting that. My only issue at the moment is just trying to get the fact across that the Rift isnt some 3d system, and it's definitely unlike anything that's been released to the public before. It does things differently. I know because I own one. Right now people have concerns about it being some sort of gimmicky 3d thing that's going to give you a headache just like 3d tv's and movies. Which is a big misconception.
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Re: Oculus Rift support in GZDooM

Postby wildweasel » Fri Jul 05, 2013 2:08 pm

Indecom wrote:@WildWeasel: If you want to move this thread that's fine too. I think this stopped being a feature suggestion ages ago. Besides, I plan to try to implement it myself.

Taken care of. This thread ought to be free of Graf's wrath. =P
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Re: Oculus Rift support in GZDooM

Postby Indecom » Fri Jul 05, 2013 3:07 pm

Thanks Weez! Hopefully now i'll be able to convince people that this is more than just a little gimmick.
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Re: Oculus Rift support in GZDooM

Postby Gez » Fri Jul 05, 2013 4:35 pm

Thanks to this bump, I noticed I made a dumb typo a gazillion years ago when the thread was new. Obviously, what I meant was:
Gez wrote:Meh, sprites aren't made for 3D rendering.



The Oculus Rift might be the most fantabulously immersive VR device ever conceived guaranteed without any drawback, and it still wouldn't address this simple but essential point.


Of course you're free to use it exclusive with model packs, but that limits you basically to vanilla content since mods usually have a plethora of custom sprites. Also, I've yet to see a Doom model pack that is finished, available, and that actually looks like an upgrade over the sprites.
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Re: Oculus Rift support in GZDooM

Postby Indecom » Fri Jul 05, 2013 4:41 pm

That's true, sprites arent meant for 3d, however that personally wouldnt stop me from enjoying it. and there's always the possibility of additional pk3 files that contain depth maps for each of the images, using that in combination with a parallax distortion shader could emulate depth into the 2d sprites. Granted it would be far from perfect, but it would be something interesting to toy around with.
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Re: Oculus Rift support in GZDooM

Postby Gez » Fri Jul 05, 2013 5:07 pm

That solution has the same drawback as model packs, except it'd be even more work for a much, much smaller audience.
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Re: Oculus Rift support in GZDooM

Postby albiongeck » Fri Jul 05, 2013 5:52 pm

Hmm I'm not sure. Left to right I don't think the 2D sprites would bother me, even as-is. The issue is when you look high or low. If Polymost rendering gets in one day is it going to do anything to address that problem? (I assume by the time the Rift launches Polymost would be added or otherwise irrelevant.)
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Re: Oculus Rift support in GZDooM

Postby Indecom » Fri Jul 05, 2013 6:06 pm

Using just what's already possible, if the player doesnt like how the sprites work in vr, then i'm sure it would be a good idea to use voxel models instead. Which would be a great way to keep the old fashioned look and feel, but with some real depth. I could probably convert some of the monster sprites to voxel format pretty well i think :)
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Re: Oculus Rift support in GZDooM

Postby albiongeck » Fri Jul 05, 2013 6:10 pm

Really to fit the community, whatever your solution is needs to be generated by the program. It doesn't necessarily have to be at runtime but you have to allow for custom content. There are programs to convert sprites to voxels automatically but the results normally need tweaking. I like the idea of sticking with sprites personally, I just think they way they are rendered now, they will tend jump up at you when you look down.
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Re: Oculus Rift support in GZDooM

Postby Indecom » Fri Jul 05, 2013 6:14 pm

Oh I agree, I was playing a simple demo made in unity, and the grass in the engine would do that same thing when I looked up or down. it is definitely problematic. However for the rift, I believe keeping the sprites aligned upright will greatly alleviate this issue. Granted it would make looking down from on high at some enemies like looking at sheets of paper, but I personally think that looks better than looking down at monsters who are seemingly laying down but still walking around lol
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Re: Oculus Rift support in GZDooM

Postby Blazko » Sat Jul 06, 2013 8:45 am

Graf Zahl wrote:@Blasko

I suggest you better stop. First, real Vision and the fake 3d from movies are hardly the same thing. Second, some people have vision problems that make it impossible to tolerate that for an extended period ic time. So please do not pretend you know better than those people.

I am sorry, I did not want to sound like as if I want to force people using the rift. But I think that we are before something really huge with the rift. In this years E3 there was a demo for the rift which simulates an i-max cinema. When using this programme, you can whatch every movie with it and those people who have tried this said, that they really felt like being in a big cinema, watching that movie on a huge screen. Maybe it would be fun to also play games on a huge i-max screen....
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Re: Oculus Rift support in GZDooM

Postby mallo » Sat Jul 06, 2013 9:14 am

Indecom wrote:At this moment it's not the cheapest accessory, no. But there are people willing to pay 500 dollars for next gen experience, or 600 dollars for a new graphics card. By the time the consumer model comes out, it will have a higher density display, positional tracking, maybe even cameras, and it will likely be even cheaper than the devkit. This is one of those things where when you try it, you instantly believe that 300 dollars is completely reasonable.


A bit (I mean, aboslutely) off-topic, but do you think it would be possible to use it as a base for making some AR? I had an idea, around half a year ago, about making AR FPS... It would be cool, to have a gunfight in your neighborhood. :P
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