Question about supershotgun

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Question about supershotgun

Postby Fernito » Fri Jul 01, 2011 8:33 am

Is it my idea or supershotgun is a bit less powerful in ZDoom compared to original Doom? I'm asking this because in original Doom I could easily kill a cacodemon or a pain elemental with 2 SSG shots, or a mancubus with 3 SSG shots, but in ZDoom you have to be very lucky if you can do so, even shooting at point-blank range.
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Re: Question about supershotgun

Postby Blue Shadow » Fri Jul 01, 2011 8:52 am

As far as I can tell, there is no difference. It all comes down to the damage randomizer.

This is the attack used by the SSG from ZDoom Wiki and this is the SSG page on Doom Wiki. Feel free to compare them.
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Re: Question about supershotgun

Postby NeuralStunner » Fri Jul 01, 2011 8:53 am

Vanilla DooM used a fake Random Number Generator. It was essentially a list of numbers that would be looped through, grabbing the next one whenever a "random" number is needed.

Because of the setup, the SSG was more likely to get more high-damage hits out of 20.

ZDoom uses a "true" RNG, which keeps away from a pre-generated table, but gives more averaged results. I personally much prefer it this way, though some deathmatch nuts insist that the SSG is "broken" without the old, clunky, less-random-than-usual RNG table. (Skulltag actually has an option for that these days...)

My solution is to not complain that the SSG isn't as woah overpowered, and give the other weapons some use. :P
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Re: Question about supershotgun

Postby Blue Shadow » Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:19 am

NeuralStunner wrote:Vanilla DooM used a fake Random Number Generator. It was essentially a list of numbers that would be looped through, grabbing the next one whenever a "random" number is needed.

Because of the setup, the SSG was more likely to get more high-damage hits out of 20.

ZDoom uses a "true" RNG, which keeps away from a pre-generated table, but gives more averaged results.

I didn't know that vanilla Doom's RNG is different than ZDoom's. Thanks for the info Neural.

But what about when you save, i.e, lets say while I'm playing, I saved the game and then I got hit by a Hell Knight plasma ball, for instance, and I suffered 56 points of damage. Loading and getting hit with that same attack each time will cost me the same amount of points. Shouldn't the damage be randomized on each load.
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Re: Question about supershotgun

Postby Fernito » Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:22 am

I got it, thanks a lot for your reply :)
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Re: Question about supershotgun

Postby DaMan » Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:01 am

Blue Shadow wrote:But what about when you save, i.e, lets say while I'm playing, I saved the game and then I got hit by a Hell Knight plasma ball, for instance, and I suffered 56 points of damage. Loading and getting hit with that same attack each time will cost me the same amount of points. Shouldn't the damage be randomized on each load.

If the random seed is saved then no. Given the same circumstances with the same seed you'll get the same results (why a computer can never truly be random). If you ever tried to cheat in an emulator by loading savestates to get a different result you'll know what I mean. Ask Randy what changes the seed if you want to game the system tool assisted speedrun style.
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