Doom 3 questions

Discuss anything ZDoom-related that doesn't fall into one of the other categories.

Doom 3 questions

Postby Reactor » Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:35 pm

I just completed Doom 3 for the umpteenth time, and despite it's more than 10 years later, it still fascinates me, except for the pitch blackness everywhere. I was also fascinated by reading about the theories, hidden stuff, eye candy and interesting parts of the backstory over "da Intarnetz". I still have a couple of questions, which I hope I get an answer for here. I would love to hear your opinions or points of view about them so maybe these things will be a tad less blurry for me.

- First of all, I noticed many maintenance workers and enginners reported strange voices and sounds, someone even mentions seeing some inhuman creature - but all of these were prior to the Hell invasion of the Mars base. So how could there be eerie voices and creatures before the main portal in Delta was opened? It sounds like a major plothole to me.

- Do the Z-Sectors say anything meaningful during the game? I was listening to their chattering, it's mostly gibberish, but I could vaguely recognize the word "station" a few times. Also, if they're zombies, why do still need the radio to communicate with each other? It doesn't really serve any purpose.

- How come Doomguy was not turned into a zombie? Much like the poor Dr. Ishii, he was touched by a golden skull (in the airlock of Mars City), but that didn't seem to do anything. In contrast, every other human being touched by those floating skulls were zombified almost instantly.

- Those red visions during the game...I couldn't really understand them. What purpose do they serve, apart from getting you into the right mood?
IMHO these red visions are actually Hell's failed attempts to turn you into a zombie. The very first time this happens, you can actually see yourself being zombified, but then, everything returns to normal.

- If the ancient Martian people were plauged by the same demonic invasion from Hell, does this mean they were Christians too? Since what we see in the game is the actual Christian Hell, with very good representations from Dante's Inferno. So this would mean the ancient people were also Christians, which is, in short, plain impossible.

- Is there a way to lower my ammunition levels? I'd be fine with half of the ammo the game gives me, and I'm looking for some code or console command to lose ammo. Any good suggestions?

- If the Cherubs have wings, how come they don't fly around like Lost Souls?

- In the level "Communications", the UAC announcer tells a message which I can't really understand. You can hear it on the "Skywalk" area and begins with "Power fluctuations in main communications...". Can someone write the whole message for me?
It is titled "comp68.org" in the resource file.

I know I know, talking about Doom 3 here, expect pitchforks and torches, but...come on! It's really a great game, only it has a different approach to the subject. And there is no better community discussing these subjects than this :)

INCOMING TRANSMISSION
Marine! Er...never mind...
TRANSMISSION ENDS
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Re: Doom 3 questions

Postby Voros » Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:13 pm

- Note that the invasion was the first time things went awry. Before that, it's implied that the portal to Hell was opened several times for research purposes. You may remember those tubues that had demon samples like an imp, an Hellknight skull and spine, etc in some kind of liquid. How do you think they got these? The UAC went to Hell more than once before the invasion.

- Z-Secs talk? Huh. I doubt it's anything meaningful. You'll have to look at the original files that contain the audio of these enemies. And why not use radios? Nothing wrong with that. Humans also do meaningfulness things too y'know.

- IDK, your guess is good as mine. Although the way Doom3guy behaves, his personality might have been resistant against the demons or simply incompatible. Your guess is good as mine.

- Apart from setting the right mood? Probably an after effect of Hell's influence on the facility. That Hell shit seems to really mess people up after all.

- ... No comment.

-

- Your guess is good as mine. Maybe they're underdeveloped wings, or maybe Cherubs are too fat. Open to suggestions.

- Get some headphones, open up the audio file and listen closely.

-
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Re: Doom 3 questions

Postby Nevander » Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:32 pm

Voros wrote:Although the way Doom3guy behaves, his personality might have been resistant against the demons or simply incompatible. Your guess is good as mine.

Sometimes there's a man... well, he's the man for his time and place. He fits right in there.
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Re: Doom 3 questions

Postby phantombeta » Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:10 am

- First of all, I noticed many maintenance workers and enginners reported strange voices and sounds, someone even mentions seeing some inhuman creature - but all of these were prior to the Hell invasion of the Mars base. So how could there be eerie voices and creatures before the main portal in Delta was opened? It sounds like a major plothole to me.

The UAC had opened portals to hell before the invasion. That's why Betruger was so intent on getting the invasion to succeed and was immediately working for Hell as soon as the invasion started. They sent people, and they all (or at least most, I don't remember 100% of it) came back with severe mental problems IIRC.
In fact, I believe the only reason the invasion happened was because Betruger went to Hell and made a pact so that he would help with the invasion in exchange for power.

Spoiler:


I know I know, talking about Doom 3 here, expect pitchforks and torches, but...come on! It's really a great game, only it has a different approach to the subject. And there is no better community discussing these subjects than this :)

Nah, it's okay. It really isn't a bad game. It's just not an exact copy of Doom 1, which IMO is good.
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Re: Doom 3 questions

Postby Reactor » Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:40 am

Thank you for the good responses :) I am glad the topic was not scorned upon because of Doom 3. I think you were right about that UAC indeed made trips to Hell before, and some individual nasties made it thru the portals to the Mars base. As for Betruger, I figured that he was the Devil all along, sort of an embodiment of Satan. He knew exactly what will happen once they build the teleporters, this is why he did it in the first place. He understood the scribblings on the stone tablets from the very start, and deliberately used teleporters to open gateways to Hell. Basically Doom 3 is about that demonic invasion of the ancient Martian people many years later, sort of a re-match, and since Betruger took the Soul Cube to Hell, there was no way humanity could have succeed defeating the demons. The appearance of Maledict is also pretty close to what Dante has described, except this one has only 1 head (or two, if you count Betruger's).

It's also puzzling why God and the forces of Heaven don't intervene when all Hell breaks loose. Logic suggests that if there is a Devil, there must be a God as well. I remember I was kind of hoping for something like this, seeing how terrible things got, but I guess eventually God thought that Doomguy can take care of business.

I still cannot make anything out from that UAC announcer message. Maybe my vocabulary isn't good enough.
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Re: Doom 3 questions

Postby Hellser » Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:09 pm

Doom 3 is a good game. But I wouldn't say it's a good Doom game. :)
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Re: Doom 3 questions

Postby Vader » Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:49 pm

My 2cent:

- As was already said, the portal had been active before the main invasion and my guess is that the expeditions didn't only bring back samples but also "hells influence" to some extend. It kind of leaked through in my vision

- The original recordings (before they got distorted/edited to the actual sounds we hear in the game) might have had a meaning, but I doubt that it was anything other than random military chat or something along that line...

- There are other individuals who didn't get zombified during the invasion, so my theory is that only the most "mentally strong" could resist hell and survive. I'm not talking about intelligence but stability, since even the brightest scientist can have mental problems... I guess you know what I mean

- You might be right about hells failed attempts to zombifie Doomguy, but for me it always seemed that hell was playing tricks to Doomguys mind to weaken him... psychological warfare so to say :P

- I'm not sure if Doom3's hell is supposed to be the christian hell... for me it's just another dimension, wich happens to resemble this particular vision of hell. But even if it is, this strange dimension definitely exist in the context of the game, so why should people from other religions or non-religious people not be able to gain access to it?

- No idea

- I agree with the others, the Cherub is probably too heavy to fly. The way that thing moves seem too support that thought IMO

- I remember that particular announcement and I guess it's intentional that the rest of the message is not understandable at all, well since: "power fluctuations in main communications" :P

I know I know, talking about Doom 3 here, expect pitchforks and torches, but...come on! It's really a great game, only it has a different approach to the subject. And there is no better community discussing these subjects than this :)


I don't think that's a problem and personally I totally agree with Hellser!

Btw, while we're at it, I have two things that I always found akward about Doom3 story-wise:

1. The guys on mars found these stone carvings and one scientist (can't remember who, but I think there were others confirming that theory) claimed that we, humankind are direct ancestors of the alien race living on mars... how can any serious scientist completely ignore the theory of evelution and say something like that? How do they explain the enormous amount of similarity between us and other species here on earth... No need to get into deatil I guess, but it makes no sense to me at all!
Maybe I'm missing something?

2. At one point you get the chance to make a seemingly big choice;
Obey Sgt. Kelly and send the transmission to earth to call the fleet
or
Ignore an order from your boss and follow Councilor Swann
However, no matter what you do, it doesn't have any effect on the game whatsoever... there isn't even anything that could explain why the fleet arrives at the end of the game, even though you cancelled the transmission. And also Sgt. Kelly treats you no different after that part even though you refused to follow his direct order. Wth?
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Re: Doom 3 questions

Postby Chris » Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:08 pm

Vader wrote:- I'm not sure if Doom3's hell is supposed to be the christian hell... for me it's just another dimension, wich happens to resemble this particular vision of hell.

Not to mention, there's much more to Christianity than just Hell (and the depiction of Hell being all fire and brimstone isn't consistent; in some writings, Hell comes across as being more of a state of mind than a place of lava and fire).

1. The guys on mars found these stone carvings and one scientist (can't remember who, but I think there were others confirming that theory) claimed that we, humankind are direct ancestors of the alien race living on mars... how can any serious scientist completely ignore the theory of evelution and say something like that?

Maybe I'm confusing it with something else, but I think there was also the idea somewhere that we went from Earth to Mars, found Hell some time later, then came back with civilization in ruins and had to start over.

2. At one point you get the chance to make a seemingly big choice;
Obey Sgt. Kelly and send the transmission to earth to call the fleet
or
Ignore an order from your boss and follow Councilor Swann
However, no matter what you do, it doesn't have any effect on the game whatsoever... there isn't even anything that could explain why the fleet arrives at the end of the game, even though you cancelled the transmission.

If you don't send the transmission, later on Betruger says he sent it anyway during one of his taunts.
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Re: Doom 3 questions

Postby Reactor » Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:18 pm

Well, the in-game depiction of Hell was the main reason of my uncertainity. I've read about this stuff a while ago, and as far as I know, only the Christian religion describes Hell like this fire and brimstone stuff with evil demons all around. Other religions seem to differ in this aspect from the classic Hell interpretation (some of these are actually very cold), some religions don't have any kind of Hell at all. This led me to the conclusion that either the Martian people were Christians, or Hell as it is really exists.
I was also wondering what causes the infinite stamina in Hell, from the obvious fact that it makes the level a tad easier, since you never get weary. But it must have some reason. It is even noted in one of the e-mails that people who went to Hell experienced the lack of being tired.

As for the scientists and their assumptions of we are actually descendants of the ancient Martian people was mostly guessing without any scientific proof, so it still had to be verified and studied carefully until established eligibly as a fact :) Unfortunately, the demonic overrun of the base interrupted the hard work the scientists were doing and forced them into hiding. The scientist is Piecre Rogers by the way, and it is hinted that there is much even he doesn't know. When you proceed to talk to him, he says he is close to discover everything, and refuses to leave his hidey-hole. His findings however, died with him, since according to the Wiki, Doomguy was the only survivor they found (though he might have been rescued offscreen prior to Doomguy).
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