Eye of the Beholder Textures [Released]

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Re: Eye of the Beholder Textures [Released]

Postby Enjay » Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:49 am

Released - check the first post for a download link.

I've had to rush it out a bit because I think my computer may be dying. It's been acting weird for the last few weeks and sometimes failing to boot. Today seems to be worse.
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Re: Eye of the Beholder Textures [Released]

Postby Cherno » Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:57 am

Great work, many thanks! I'm writing a dungeon crawler movement system just for fun and this comes very handy :)
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Re: Eye of the Beholder Textures [Released]

Postby Enjay » Sun Mar 24, 2019 12:18 pm

Thanks. Regarding on your comment in the other thread, I didn't scale anything down - but the the textures do look good at 96x96 size rather than their full 128x128. However, mapping in Doom at 96x96 is a bit awkward.

As a compromise, you'll notice that most textures can be used in a 96 tall sector. I made it either so that the texture looked OK with the top 32 units hidden or I made 96-tall friendly variants. A few textures can't really fit like this (usually because they have a tall feature image of some sort on them) but most work just fine. So, although they are not 96 wide, they work well in 96 tall rooms. Many patches folders also have a patch in them that can easily be used in a texture definition to give a better top section to any texture intended for a 96 tall room.

Spoiler:
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Re: Eye of the Beholder Textures [Released]

Postby Nash » Sun Mar 24, 2019 12:34 pm

Thanks for these useful resources Enjay. Good luck with the computer problems; sounds like high time to get some backups made. :)
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Re: Eye of the Beholder Textures [Released]

Postby Enjay » Sun Mar 24, 2019 12:46 pm

Thanks.

I've been making regular backups ever since my computer started acting weird. The problem had settled down over the last couple of weeks or more, so I thought it might have just been one of those things that go away on their own. However, it came back last night. The thing is, it's intermittent and usual diagnostics don't really turn up anything useful. Sometimes the way it behaves gives the impression that it might be related to a failing SSD, but at other times that doesn't really seem to fit. I've tried the tips and advice that I've been given here and elsewhere but I still can't definitively say "the problem is X". If it was just the SSD, I could replace it. However, I don't want to go through the hassle of replacing it and setting everything up again only to find that I still have the problem. Not really sure what to try next TBH.
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Re: Eye of the Beholder Textures [Released]

Postby Rachael » Sun Mar 24, 2019 1:11 pm

You will want to get that looked at by someone who has the resources to help you out. You won't have to set everything up again if you simply image the drive onto another. But first you have to rule out the SSD being the issue - and to do that you need another one (possibly a loan from someone else?) and copy your full system onto it and boot from that device, instead.

If the boot failures continue, then it is a software problem on Windows. If they do not, then you may want to purchase the drive.

One little caveat to keep in mind, though, for imaging anything onto a loaner drive - you cannot keep any data stored on solid state truly private. Security experts consider anything that lands on an SSD chip to be there permanently, even if it's not, due to the possibility of recovery. Traditional methods of data destruction do not work with SSD's, so for corporations with sensitive data or governments handling classified information, they are always sent to the shredder. Basically, that means delete all your private stuff and only use imaging software that copies the active in-use data.
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Re: Eye of the Beholder Textures [Released]

Postby Enjay » Sun Mar 24, 2019 1:36 pm

Tracking down someone with those resources might be the tricky part. To be fair, I can possibly image the drive myself. It sounds like a possible way forward anyway. Thanks for the input. :)

The other option is get a new machine. :twisted:
I don't really need to replace this one. I bought a very high spec machine for the time intending it to be reasonably future-proof and it's still better than most machines out there. However, it's around 2.5 years old now so I could just about justify, kind of sort of, getting a new machine. Then I could work on the old one to get it up and running more reliably and give it to my wife to replace her old clunker (which really does need to be replaced). Doing that could also mean better opportunities for local multi-player games or whatever.
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Re: Eye of the Beholder Textures [almost ready]

Postby Mithloraite » Fri Nov 01, 2019 2:25 pm

Enjay wrote:I have to confess that I never completed LOL, but I have dipped in to it a few times - and I've probably seen most of it in one way or another. I keep meaning to give it a proper go.

I think the problem for me was that I got completely obsessed with EOB - I mean, really, really obsessed. It's pretty much what got me into PC gaming properly. EOB2 was bigger and badder and I really enjoyed it too. I was absolutely stoked for EOB3 and desperate to complete the trilogy with my battle-hardened party from the first two games. However, the updated engine for EOB3 was awful and barely ran on even pretty beefy (for the time) hardware, the art direction had shifted slightly (my character portraits looked a bit different for starters),


EOB is indeed like that! :D And my story with PC gaming is very much alike. Long story short, my monomania was having that Stone Gem around. That was fixed. But as I think of playing EOB-III to refresh this goodness I also think of those ~portraits~.
Did they (EOB-III portraits) change things for the worse for you?

As I think of it EOB-III authors changed many things about these portraits and mainly spoiled the impression of the game.

I wonder if that should be changed. As it, well, affects the whole game.

P.S.
I know one portrait got actually better, in EOB-III.
Other portraits were not that lucky, though.
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Re: Eye of the Beholder Textures [almost ready]

Postby Mithloraite » Fri Nov 01, 2019 2:41 pm

EffinghamHuffnagel wrote:Always loved EOB. Always thought it would work nicely in Hexen. Somewhere I still have my original 5-1/4 floppies along with all the other Gold Box games. I've always had a question about EOB. I've searched intermittently over the years, always unsuccessfully. I wonder if maybe you've found the answer in your research. Was there a missing level? The game seemed to be set up as four 'episodes' of three levels each, and a final boss level. But one episode only had two levels. I think it was seven and eight. I know something was wrong because I always had one extra unused key afterwards. And the teleporters felt like a 'kludge'. Were the authors pushed up against a hard deadline? Is that why there was no big finale/glorious return animation at the end of the game? Just one screen of text and back to DOS.

Really looking forward to this. If it's well-received, I'm hoping someone with sprite skills might be inspired to convert some of the D&D monsters, or maybe all of EOB. Surprised so few monsters have been adapted/converted. Thri-kreen would seem to fit in any of the id games.


Sorry to mention that but fact is EOB-1 had no secret/missing levels. Just the official ones described in the Clue Book. Once I had to check the game files for that.
The last three levels were called "Outer Sanctum" - "Outer Sanctum II" - "Inner Sanctum" and that's it.

The only thing Clue Book did not mention was the poor story of removing the Stone Gem which existed in the Demo version.
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Re: Eye of the Beholder Textures [almost ready]

Postby Enjay » Fri Nov 01, 2019 3:28 pm

Mithloraite wrote:Did they (EOB-III portraits) change things for the worse for you?

As I think of it EOB-III authors changed many things about these portraits and mainly spoiled the impression of the game.

The portraits changed for the worse, definitely. I don't mind that they changed, but they changed in a way that made them not feel like a continuation of what went before. I wouldn't have minded, for example, if the characters had looked a little older (in fact, that would have been cool) provided that they still felt like the same individuals. But something (something quite intangible to be fair) made them just seem "not right" IMO.

But, as you say, it was only one of the symptoms of much wider change in art direction, sound quality, engine playable-ness, story quality etc, etc. IMO, they tried to improve almost every aspect of the game but, in practice, their "improvements" lost sight of what had worked and made almost every aspect of the game worse (sometimes only slightly so, but sometimes in a big way). The overall cumulative effect was, therefore, a significantly worse game than the previous chapters that was something of a chore to play at times, less fun and less satisfying. All IMO, of course, but other people clearly thought/think the same.
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Re: Eye of the Beholder Textures [almost ready]

Postby Mithloraite » Fri Nov 01, 2019 4:45 pm

Enjay wrote:
Mithloraite wrote:Did they (EOB-III portraits) change things for the worse for you?

As I think of it EOB-III authors changed many things about these portraits and mainly spoiled the impression of the game.

changed for the worse, definitely. I don't mind that they changed, but they changed in a way that made them not feel like a continuation of what went before. I wouldn't have minded, for example, if the characters had looked a little older (in fact, that would have been cool) provided that they still felt like the same individuals. But something (something quite intangible to be fair) made them just seem "not right" IMO.


For the worse - yes, as I thought. They are surely different in their engine and color rendering technology.
But I looked for other differences. Mainly I've come to the conclusion the artist in charge was just a sloppier artist
(than one responsible for games 1-2.) Some of the new lines are crude and the result is also crude.
On Vogons I put some pictures for comparison...

https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=69996

In short: the Green ninja had her veil moved down, adding bigger(!) nose in its place. Such design. :(

Also the EOB-III team did some work on "clothing" some characters - after the manner of Daniele Volterra who "painted prudish underpants on the figures of Michelangelo". :lol:

What I'm thinking about, EOB-III authors did some good things too, I mentioned it on Vogons, preventing the game from becoming a total failure. Like using polearms efficiently or 'All Attack' instead of 8 mouse clicks, dealing with AD&D level limits...

Might you say "returning" the original portrais would be a nice idea?

Sure the heroes might become older in game-III - but there are hardly any artists who could do it just for fun.

Replacing some portraits with game-1/2 versions might be easier, perhaps?

Enjay wrote: IMO, they tried to improve almost every aspect of the game but, in practice, their "improvements" lost sight of what had worked and made almost every aspect of the game worse (sometimes only slightly so, but sometimes in a big way).


With music they failed utterly. They did Roland synth support but nearly no impressive music to go with it.
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Re: Eye of the Beholder Textures [almost ready]

Postby Enjay » Fri Nov 01, 2019 5:53 pm

Mithloraite wrote:What I'm thinking about, EOB-III authors did some good things too, I mentioned it on Vogons, preventing the game from becoming a total failure. Like using polearms efficiently or 'All Attack' instead of 8 mouse clicks, dealing with AD&D level limits...

Hmmm... I have a mixed reaction to those. Yes, it was most certainly welcome to have better use of long-reach melee weapons. And, yes, much of the time the all attack button really helped. However, by the time I was fighting the big-bad guys, my party was pretty tough and so the all attack button made the battles very easy. To win, all you had to do was hit all attack, sidestep and then rinse and repeat for a surprisingly small number of times because every time you hit all attack, you dealt so much damage that the bad guys didn't stand a chance.

Mithloraite wrote:Might you say "returning" the original portrais would be a nice idea?

It would be a nice idea but, to me, the biggest problem was always the incredibly inefficient engine. It was so slow, even on pretty powerful (contemporary) hardware. It took far longer to start up than the almost-instant earlier engine and every time a new entity or sound was about to be encountered, an hour glass timer would appear and the game would halt temporarily, letting you know that you were about to face something new, thereby taking all of the surprise out of it. EOB1 played smooth as silk on my 286 but EOBIII was slow, jerky and inefficient on a much more powerful 486 DX2 66. Even on my current machine, if I run EOBIII with emulation speeds maxed out, I can still see that hour glass appearing in EOBIII and Dungeon Hack (which, of course, uses the same engine).

The change in art style/quality, the degrading of sound, the weak story etc etc were all bad points but none of them would have been worth addressing without fixing the engine because even if they were all fine, the engine wouldn't allow me to play the game in a way that was fun. I slogged through it a few times but that's what it was: a slog. EOB 1 & 2 were a delight and a pleasure to play and I'd happily play either one again at the drop of a hat.
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Re: Eye of the Beholder Textures [almost ready]

Postby Mithloraite » Sat Nov 02, 2019 12:55 pm

Enjay wrote:...every time a new entity or sound was about to be encountered, an hour glass timer would appear and the game would halt temporarily, letting you know that you were about to face something new, thereby taking all of the surprise out of it.


Well, this is just "great", to announce every surprise beforehand... :) Maybe the cure is found already. Aesop 32?

https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=41127

First, EoB-III loves DoSBox .73 and not .74. Also there is DMA-EMS sound popping matter, handled like this:

(same Vogons thread)

"Some time ago I found a workaround for the popping sounds when using DOS4GW as the extender, which at least works in DOSBox 0.74 and SVN with default settings, is to allocate a single page of EMS memory before running the game. It seems the popping is related to DMA, and using EMS where the allocated number of pages is NOT an integral of 4 prevents it. The game doesn't need EMS, this workaround just manages to avoid the problem."

Finally, a long time Vogons user Keropi states -Aesop 32 patch- has actually made the game quicker on Pentium 200.
Which is reasonable power. (Being quick only on Athlon would be not too nice...) Here:

"I did some more testing, AESOP32 version does work faster on my p200mmx , I was wrong before when I said there is no difference."

I wonder if these fixes finally killed this "surprise warning problem" after all?

(Like, "In strange aeons even death can die" :) )

So in the end we might come to a situation where the speed stuttering matter is gone and only sloppy portraits remain to grieve us.


P.S.
Enjay wrote: much of the time the all attack button really helped. However, by the time I was fighting the big-bad guys, my party was pretty tough and so the all attack button made the battles very easy.


Indeed. But that might be the problem of being just very powerful. Not the problem of EoB-III itself. "You think you are gods walking this plane!"(c)NPC Father Jon
If we get 3 to 6 fighters (possibly multiclass) all armed with +5, +4 long swords and +3 short swords, +5 and +4 polearms in the second row and every fighter attacks many (2 or more) times per round (being level 14+) even a huge monster should go do down in a minute. Throw in some haste and/or 18/00, 21 or 24 Strength from magic gauntlets...

Once I read how Drowish Zin-carla chopped to pieces monsters of the Underdark, single-handedly. In no time. We in EoB-III have 6 characters matching this Zin-carla fighting power. It might be boring to be so strong. :)
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Re: Eye of the Beholder Textures [almost ready]

Postby Mithloraite » Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:01 pm

Enjay wrote:
Mithloraite wrote:Did they (EOB-III portraits) change things for the worse for you?

As I think of it EOB-III authors changed many things about these portraits and mainly spoiled the impression of the game.

The portraits changed for the worse, definitely. I don't mind that they changed, but they changed in a way that made them not feel like a continuation of what went before.


Now, it is fixed. No more Reptiles. The "Green Girl" looks like this

https://i.imgur.com/38kLMCV.png

12 portraits are restored.

Details of the patch are here:

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=100055&page=2

Mainly it looks much better - and 200% more EotB-1-like :)

No more red Chinese mages, darkened Paladins or other blunders.
EoB-III persisting graphic horrors are done with. Freedom and restoration! :)
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Re: Eye of the Beholder Textures [Released]

Postby Enjay » Sat Jun 20, 2020 3:10 am

Oh man, that's very cool... and very disappointing. It doesn't work with my GoG copy of EoBIII. The game crashes before it even gets to the start screen if I used the modded eye.res file. A real shame because the portraits do indeed look so much better. :(

Another disappointment (although irrelevant to me), apparently the entire trilogy was free on GoG yesterday but, as far as I can tell, the offer is now closed.
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