The [Prop Stop] - It's online

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Re: The [Prop Stop] - It's online

Postby Enjay » Thu Dec 17, 2009 11:02 am

To be fair, a lot of the potential submissions for the prop stop probably don't really need any DECORATE. I mean, submissions like a single frame sprite that just sits there (a pillar etc) might be better, as chrono suggested, without any decorate or possibly evern being in a WAD (ie just right click the pic on the site and save it).

Anything more fancy - an animated thing, something that can die/explode or something with a special effect attached should be DECORATEd though.
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Re: The [Prop Stop] - It's online

Postby ShadesMaster » Thu Dec 17, 2009 11:07 am

I have an unfinished CacoPod - basically the DooM equivalent of Heretic's exploding pod. I just never got around to finishing the death frames!
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Re: The [Prop Stop] - It's online

Postby chronoteeth » Thu Dec 17, 2009 11:08 am

Exactly. Things like just a single pillar, a dead body, etc dont really need any sort of code at all. There's a lotta stock decorations to replace with 1 sprite. Besides, it makes it easier for the people who dont use zdoom on stuff. Sure its the most used port, but it aint up to stuff for everyone. This way though, it makes at least the decorations up to stuff for every port.
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Re: The [Prop Stop] - It's online

Postby Gez » Thu Dec 17, 2009 11:29 am

You mean "down to stuff" for everyone. :P Just because it's not plug-n-play for ZDoom doesn't make it more plug-n-play for other ports.
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Re: The [Prop Stop] - It's online

Postby chronoteeth » Thu Dec 17, 2009 11:54 am

Nada mister, I meant up to stuff. >:v
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Re: The [Prop Stop] - It's online

Postby Tormentor667 » Fri Dec 18, 2009 3:27 am

Enjay wrote:To be fair, a lot of the potential submissions for the prop stop probably don't really need any DECORATE. I mean, submissions like a single frame sprite that just sits there (a pillar etc) might be better, as chrono suggested, without any decorate or possibly evern being in a WAD (ie just right click the pic on the site and save it).

I don't think so. Already adding a DECORATE isn't a bad thing, if you want to use that prop in other engines, you can still just delete the file. Though if you already have a DECORATE in the wad, you can just add the stuff right away to your resources without doing any thinking or coding :) I mean, it's saving another 3-4 minutes and that's what the Realm667 repositories are there fore - saving time and work so you can concentrate on other things.
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Re: The [Prop Stop] - It's online

Postby chronoteeth » Fri Dec 18, 2009 10:38 am

Does a single frame pillar that has no animation or glow whatsoever really need a wad or decorate? If anything, things like that would make it more of a hassle than just a single image.
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Re: The [Prop Stop] - It's online

Postby Gez » Fri Dec 18, 2009 1:01 pm

chronoteeth wrote:If anything, things like that would make it more of a hassle than just a single image.

How? Why?

Before it can get into the game, an actor definition has to be made anyway. I don't see how copy-pasting an existing lump is more of a hassle than writing it.
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Re: The [Prop Stop] - It's online

Postby Ghastly » Fri Dec 18, 2009 7:09 pm

Gez wrote:I don't see how copy-pasting an existing lump is more of a hassle than remembering what flags and properties work for static decorations and trying to find a good radius and height.

Fixed. :?
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Re: The [Prop Stop] - It's online

Postby Tormentor667 » Sat Dec 19, 2009 6:39 am

Gez wrote:Before it can get into the game, an actor definition has to be made anyway. I don't see how copy-pasting an existing lump is more of a hassle than writing it.

Exactly!
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Re: The [Prop Stop] - It's online

Postby Enjay » Sat Dec 19, 2009 7:55 am

However, to consolidate the lumps, the thing usually needs to be dismantled and copied into the main DECORATE (etc) lump for the project anyway. Personally, I'd find that easier (for simply things) if I was just provided with the individual lumps and a copy/paste bit of text for the decorate from the website. I can, however, accept that wouldn't suit everyone.

My suggestion: If it isn't already the plan, make the files available in PK3 format. That way, it will be easier for people to load/extract/edit lumps using standard file management tools rather than having to use dedicated WAD managers.

Anyway, I don't want to dwell on this point. Ultimately, it's a minor issue and the far more important thing of this new service and good idea is being lost in the fog. Tormentor has clearly made his decision. How about we just go with that and provide stuff in the format he asks for?
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Re: The [Prop Stop] - It's online

Postby Tormentor667 » Sat Dec 19, 2009 8:27 am

[quote="Enjay"My suggestion: If it isn't already the plan, make the files available in PK3 format. That way, it will be easier for people to load/extract/edit lumps using standard file management tools rather than having to use dedicated WAD managers.[/quote]
That's something I have thought about as well... converting the whole resources to PK3 format, as it's more editing friendly than having to fiddle around with wads.
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Re: The [Prop Stop] - It's online

Postby Ghastly » Sat Dec 19, 2009 10:29 am

Enjay wrote:My suggestion: If it isn't already the plan, make the files available in PK3 format. That way, it will be easier for people to load/extract/edit lumps using standard file management tools rather than having to use dedicated WAD managers.

It isn't that much harder opening with XWE, SLumpEd or something else, saving the resources to different folders and copy/pasting the code. Especially if the sprites are pngs anyway. I've done this several times for three mods (None of which I've worked much on, just compiled and severely edited the resources).

However, moving files from a pk3 to a wad is a little more annoying. :?
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Re: The [Prop Stop] - It's online

Postby Enjay » Sat Dec 19, 2009 11:04 am

Really? Given that everyone already has the capability to open zips as part of their OS if they have any recent version of Windows, or they will already have standard zipping tools, it's just the same as manipulating any other file. Compare that to the quirkier nature of dedicated WAD tools (which we are constantly being told "suck ass") and I think it is probably easier to use WADs for supplying lumps that will then need to be worked with .

Anyway, it is highly unlikely that someone is going to be able to use a resource from the Prop Stop "out of the box". Chances are that they are going to need to extract the DECORATE in order to paste its contents into another DECORATE lump and, if I am to believe what I'm told, a lot of people have problems getting XWE to do anything with PNGs without it "totally messing up the colours".

Anyway, as I said before, it really is a minor issue. Which ever way the resources are provided (wad, pk3 or separate lumps) the end user will have to manipulate them somehow and each of the possible formats have advantages and disadvantages. From what I can see, the relative merits don't seem to give any particular method a clear advantage over the others.
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Re: The [Prop Stop] - It's online

Postby chronoteeth » Sat Dec 19, 2009 4:15 pm

The PK3 set up is a much better idea for the individual stuff, but for larger things or more defined/more sprites/more etc. things are, PK3s actually tend to be much more confusing to pick apart and use instead of a single wad file
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