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Re: Reincarnation of Evil Monster wad - Betas pg4

PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 10:42 am
by Onslaught Six
Ghastly_dragon wrote:About the imp sprites, I can't do better than what I have, I don't have anything better and nobody's offered to do better. I like the new imp as well as the old imp, but personal preference notwithstanding, I certainly won't redesign the look Doom 3 imp for this mod. If you can do better than what I have, I'd be happy for the help, but if you're capable, I think there are some bigger fish to fry, like the pinky, lost soul or forgotten one. The sprites fit the model pretty well, too:
ImageImage


I think maybe using Eriance's Vulgar combined with a regular Imp would be intriguing, or using the Soul Harvester graphics from the Beastiary. I've just never liked the D64 Imp's "alien" look. He doesn't look like a Demon, he looks like...something out of Duke Nukem, almost. It doesn't help that the D64 sprites have an entirely different style to Regular Doom's.

Machinegun and Shotgun variants of the ZSec are done. They use the AI from the ZSec on the R667 Beastiary (No credit given, since I'm the one who coded it :P) since the real map-independant AI (Stand and shoot, maybe take a step to the side or crouch) is quite bland and WAY too easy to kill in Doom 2, but since they don't seem done to me, I'm marking them as 99% done. Next is the pistol variant. I just flipped and copy/flipped the sprites for a second melee attack for the imp. It looks fine from the front, but since the rotations are mirrored, it'll look like a useless amount of work if you're viewing it from different angles (especially 2, 3 and 4 :/).


Well, the different angles not working correctly is to be expected, I think--isn't it? It's the head-on view that matters, I think.

Hopefully there'll be a bunch of variety in how the ZSecs look. I've been planning on a Zombie Variations pack for a while now that puts in a bunch of variants just to look cooler and such.

Re: Reincarnation of Evil Monster wad - Betas pg4

PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 11:59 am
by CaptainToenail
I actually think the Doom64 imp is an excellent base for Doom 3 imps sprites, I even think that perhaps id started off in the early stages with something resembling the Doom64 imp, then they made it grey, leaner and added more eyes. As for the Vile resurecting, there are resurecting sounds in Doom 3 for it, but I think they removed this behaviour because there would have been problems with the ragdoll bodies and the fact that they made them disapear to stop lagginess too

Re: Reincarnation of Evil Monster wad - Betas pg4

PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 6:28 pm
by Ghastly
Onslaught Six wrote:Hopefully there'll be a bunch of variety in how the ZSecs look. I've been planning on a Zombie Variations pack for a while now that puts in a bunch of variants just to look cooler and such.


The pistol variant looks very close to the Doom 3 version (bald, black armor, white eyes, pale skin), and the shotgun variant looks pretty close (but is, in essense, a Doom 1/2 Shotgun Zombie with a helmet), but the machinegun variant looks too close to the shotgun variant. At the moment, it uses the R667 Beastiary ZSec sprites, but I'm hoping to get something a lot closer to the real one.

There'll be three or four different variants of civilian zombies (with the same stats), not counting the fat one, which'll have more health. People using this'll have a lot of options for filling maps with zombies, once this is completely done. The code for the civilians is done (it's an easy monster), but the clothing on the sprites need some touchups to make them look like UAC workers, scientists, etc. and the fat, hazmat and possibly flaming zombies will be easy edits of those.

Edit: ZSec Pistol variant is about as done as the other two.

Re: Reincarnation of Evil Monster wad - Betas pg4

PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 9:46 pm
by Sodaholic
CaptainToenail wrote:I actually think the Doom64 imp is an excellent base for Doom 3 imps sprites, I even think that perhaps id started off in the early stages with something resembling the Doom64 imp, then they made it grey, leaner and added more eyes.


id had almost nothing to do with Doom 64. It's really doubtful that they would go back to older designs that they didn't even make for inspiration.

Re: Reincarnation of Evil Monster wad - Betas pg4

PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 3:18 pm
by Unknown_Assassin
Onslaught Six wrote:I think maybe using Eriance's Vulgar combined with a regular Imp would be intriguing, or using the Soul Harvester graphics from the Beastiary. I've just never liked the D64 Imp's "alien" look. He doesn't look like a Demon, he looks like...something out of Duke Nukem, almost. It doesn't help that the D64 sprites have an entirely different style to Regular Doom's.


Does it matter to you that much? As long as the DECORATE is there, the Doom 3 imp is pretty much the same monster, regardless of the sprites. Besides, I thought the main purpose of this project is to focus on trying to replicate the Doom 3 monster's behavior rather than focusing on both the behavior and the sprites.

Re: Reincarnation of Evil Monster wad - Betas pg4

PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 4:28 pm
by Onslaught Six
Unknown_Assassin wrote:
Onslaught Six wrote:I think maybe using Eriance's Vulgar combined with a regular Imp would be intriguing, or using the Soul Harvester graphics from the Beastiary. I've just never liked the D64 Imp's "alien" look. He doesn't look like a Demon, he looks like...something out of Duke Nukem, almost. It doesn't help that the D64 sprites have an entirely different style to Regular Doom's.


Does it matter to you that much? As long as the DECORATE is there, the Doom 3 imp is pretty much the same monster, regardless of the sprites. Besides, I thought the main purpose of this project is to focus on trying to replicate the Doom 3 monster's behavior rather than focusing on both the behavior and the sprites.


Was it? I have no idea. >.>

Re: Reincarnation of Evil Monster wad - Betas pg4

PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 6:19 pm
by Ghastly
Actually, I'm trying to get both sprites and behaviour as close to the Doom 3 versions as I can, but I'm focusing more on behaviour, since that and wad management is all I really can do on this without help. The differences in style (and the Doom 64 sprites really did have a very different style) were mostly phased out during the sprite edits, so it meshes pretty well with the standard Doom monsters.

Unfortunately, the DE Vulgar and the D3-RoE Vulgar are too different for me to use the DE Vulgars sprites for this without a massive amount of editing (too much to do, myself), not to mention the leap attack.

Re: Reincarnation of Evil Monster wad - Betas pg4

PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 3:03 pm
by Ghastly
I'm working on the Trite, Tick and Vulgar (which is tough since I've never seen the Vulgar in action). The Trites keep infighting because of their leap attack, but otherwise I think their code's done (right down to the delay between footstep sounds :P). Unfortunately, I think the Trite and Tick need new sprite sets from scratch, since the Doom 2.5 versions have no rotations.

Can someone send me Monster_Demon_Vulgar.def from the expansion set's .pk4 (it should be in the /defs subdirectory)? I'll be able to use that to finish it's attacks. Non-expansion Doom 3 has Monster_Demon_Vulgar.def, too, but it's different from the real monster.

Re: Reincarnation of Evil Monster wad - Betas pg4

PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 3:18 pm
by Grimm
Pistol Zombie! I can help! (Sorry man, I totally forgot the name of this thread. I kept wondering, "Where'd that Doom 2 monsters WAD go . . .").

PM me with your e-mail address and I'll send you my improved Pistol Marine sprites. (Though, maybe you should send me a link to what you have already for the pistol marine to make sure I'm not jumping the gun . . . )

Re: Reincarnation of Evil Monster wad - Betas pg4

PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 6:03 pm
by Onslaught Six
Ghastly_dragon wrote:Actually, I'm trying to get both sprites and behaviour as close to the Doom 3 versions as I can, but I'm focusing more on behaviour, since that and wad management is all I really can do on this without help. The differences in style (and the Doom 64 sprites really did have a very different style) were mostly phased out during the sprite edits, so it meshes pretty well with the standard Doom monsters.

Unfortunately, the DE Vulgar and the D3-RoE Vulgar are too different for me to use the DE Vulgars sprites for this without a massive amount of editing (too much to do, myself), not to mention the leap attack.


I meant using the Vulgar's sprites for the Imp, eheheh. Regardless, I looked over the Soul Harveester again and he really looks apt for this.

Re: Reincarnation of Evil Monster wad - Betas pg4

PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 7:15 pm
by Ghastly
The sprites I'm using at the moment for the Imp are good enough (at least until someone can touch up on the color and/or eyes a little, but that's optional). The Vulgar or Soul Harvester would still take a ton of editing to make into the Doom 3 Imp, anyway.

Re: Reincarnation of Evil Monster wad - Betas pg4

PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 7:43 am
by Onslaught Six
Well, whatever. S'your mod, and all.

I think the real reason I'm pissy at the edited Doom64 Imp sprites is that they're as tall as Barons et al. It really makes no sense and makes the Imps into more of a threat than they really are.

Re: Reincarnation of Evil Monster wad - Betas pg4

PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 11:23 am
by Ghastly
That's not really a problem, the imps are scaled so they're as tall, if not slightly shorter than the player.

Edit: Okay, I'm considering the Trite's decorate completely done (aside from editing it for the amount of sprites), but unfortunately it has no sprites since the D2.5 one has no rotations. This would probably be a good oppritunity to remind people that this isn't just for Doom 3 mods, individual monsters could be used for other mods as well.

Edit2: I'll get to work on the D3 Revenant, Hell Knight and maybe Cacodemon using the Doom 2 sprites. It shouldn't be that hard, but I don't have the sounds for any of them.

Re: Reincarnation of Evil Monster Pack - Betas pg4

PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 9:07 pm
by Ghastly
Thanks to Grimm, I have a new sprite edit for the Pistol ZSec! It's not incredibly different, but the arm isn't hanging in mid-air, like too many Strife sprite sets, and it has full rotations, so the pistol isn't going to switch hands. Thanks again, Grimm!

It'll take me a little while to finish recoloring them, but at the moment that seems like one of the last things I can do until I get my mouse cursor on some more sprites. Does anyone know of any sprites that would work for the archviles floor-flame attack?

Re: Reincarnation of Evil Monster Pack - Betas pg4

PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 9:49 pm
by Shadelight
Vulgur is pretty much an imp, but faster.