Autobuilds of Raze on devbuilds.drdteam.org?

Re: Autobuilds of Raze on devbuilds.drdteam.org?

Postby funduke re-regist » Tue Aug 18, 2020 4:11 am

Thank you for the autobuild!
Please look here
viewtopic.php?f=340&t=69606
for my problem with it!

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Re: Autobuilds of Raze on devbuilds.drdteam.org?

Postby bisk89 » Sun Sep 27, 2020 1:26 pm

Please make build for Mac :)
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Re: Autobuilds of Raze on devbuilds.drdteam.org?

Postby mjr4077au » Sun Oct 11, 2020 11:31 pm

bisk89 wrote:Please make build for Mac :)

Just to relay the information I conveyed here, I'm not sure whether this will "just work", but please try the macOS Githib Continuous Integration artifact available from the top right here: https://github.com/coelckers/Raze/runs/1240177212.

Unfortunately I don't have immediate access macOS device here to provide builds anymore so if that CI artefact does indeed work, it's a good option for now.
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Re: Autobuilds of Raze on devbuilds.drdteam.org?

Postby Graf Zahl » Sun Oct 11, 2020 11:51 pm

I never tested it but is's neither signed nor notarized, so with macOS Catalina it may be problematic. But I am not going to pay Apple some $$$ just to deploy on their OS.
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Re: Autobuilds of Raze on devbuilds.drdteam.org?

Postby mjr4077au » Mon Oct 12, 2020 12:09 am

Are open source projects like us expected to have someone flit the bill just to distribute working binaries to end users? :? :roll:
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Re: Autobuilds of Raze on devbuilds.drdteam.org?

Postby Rachael » Mon Oct 12, 2020 12:39 am

Apple and Open Source are about as close as you'll ever get to a perfect definition of diametrically opposed.
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Re: Autobuilds of Raze on devbuilds.drdteam.org?

Postby mjr4077au » Mon Oct 12, 2020 12:47 am

Sounds about right... Graf, any indication how many users have downloaded the macOS binary from the Github releases page? I think that information is only available to the repository owner.

If the number is sizable, I'll just get a code signing certificate from them and build them on my girlfriend's 2013 MacBook Air *shudders*.
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Re: Autobuilds of Raze on devbuilds.drdteam.org?

Postby Graf Zahl » Mon Oct 12, 2020 12:56 am

mjr4077au wrote:Are open source projects like us expected to have someone flit the bill just to distribute working binaries to end users? :? :roll:



To get access to Apple's infrastructure you have to pay an annual fee of $100 - without that you cannot sign your packages and with recent macOS versions that means you cannot distribute your packages because your users cannot run them. I fully expect this to become progressively worse over the coming years, essentially turning the Mac into a platform where you have two choices - either buy software for lots of money or setting up your own compile environment and build from source. That is, unless Apple starts requiring a certificate for that as well.

Fun stuff: I recently needed a new Mac at work because my old MacBook was showing signs of breaking down. That computer alone cost €1800, and comes with a measly Core i5 3.0 GHz with 6 cores, integrated Intel graphics and a 512 GB SSD. Just for fun I checked an online PC assembler and built a system with the same or comparable components, and the end result was €500. That's the premium Apple demands. And on top of that came software licenses for roughly €500, many of which would not be needed on Windows or Linux because there's free alternatives to choose from that do not exist on macOS. We are talking about a surcharge of roughly €1500, just for the right to use macOS...
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Re: Autobuilds of Raze on devbuilds.drdteam.org?

Postby Graf Zahl » Mon Oct 12, 2020 12:59 am

mjr4077au wrote:Sounds about right... Graf, any indication how many users have downloaded the macOS binary from the Github releases page? I think that information is only available to the repository owner.

If the number is sizable, I'll just get a code signing certificate from them and build them on my girlfriend's 2013 MacBook Air *shudders*.



https://somsubhra.com/github-release-st ... itory=Raze

0.6 had 66 downloads out of 1676 for all platforms


mjr4077au wrote:
If the number is sizable, I'll just get a code signing certificate from them and build them on my girlfriend's 2013 MacBook Air *shudders*.


Please don't waste your money. Everybody caving in to Apple's demands will only help make things worse. :?
That said, on GZDoom we have a relatively consistent rate of 2-3% of all downloads and 2% of all users.
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Re: Autobuilds of Raze on devbuilds.drdteam.org?

Postby mjr4077au » Mon Oct 12, 2020 1:06 am

Graf Zahl wrote:To get access to Apple's infrastructure you have to pay an annual fee of $100 - without that you cannot sign your packages and with recent macOS versions that means you cannot distribute your packages because your users cannot run them. I fully expect this to become progressively worse over the coming years, essentially turning the Mac into a platform where you have two choices - either buy software for lots of money or setting up your own compile environment and build from source. That is, unless Apple starts requiring a certificate for that as well.

Fun stuff: I recently needed a new Mac at work because my old MacBook was showing signs of breaking down. That computer alone cost €1800, and comes with a measly Core i5 3.0 GHz with 6 cores, integrated Intel graphics and a 512 GB SSD. Just for fun I checked an online PC assembler and built a system with the same or comparable components, and the end result was €500. That's the premium Apple demands. And on top of that came software licenses for roughly €500, many of which would not be needed on Windows or Linux because there's free alternatives to choose from that do not exist on macOS. We are talking about a surcharge of roughly €1500, just for the right to use macOS...

That's an absolute joke and I personally do not get the appeal. There's a guy at work who's so entrenched in the ecosystem that he's the type who stands in line out the front of the Apple Store for every new release. Half of the time when he's banging on about how his new iPhone does x or y, I politely inform him that my Android phone has done whatever for many years previously. "...yeah but Apple's done this like this and that's why it's better". "... OK, champ :?".

Graf Zahl wrote:https://somsubhra.com/github-release-stats/?username=coelckers&repository=Raze

0.6 had 66 downloads out of 1676 for all platforms

Ehhhh.... It's not that high in demand, and I have no way to know how many unique downloads that is vs. someone downloading the binary 10 times for some reason. I'll have to give it some more thought.
Last edited by mjr4077au on Mon Oct 12, 2020 1:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Autobuilds of Raze on devbuilds.drdteam.org?

Postby Rachael » Mon Oct 12, 2020 1:06 am

Graf Zahl wrote:Fun stuff: I recently needed a new Mac at work because my old MacBook was showing signs of breaking down. That computer alone cost €1800, and comes with a measly Core i5 3.0 GHz with 6 cores, integrated Intel graphics and a 512 GB SSD. Just for fun I checked an online PC assembler and built a system with the same or comparable components, and the end result was €500. That's the premium Apple demands. And on top of that came software licenses for roughly €500, many of which would not be needed on Windows or Linux because there's free alternatives to choose from that do not exist on macOS. We are talking about a surcharge of roughly €1500, just for the right to use macOS...

My MacBook that I have cost me roughly $800 in 2008. Adjusted for today's inflation and converted to European dollars, that's €828.

For investors, Tim Cook is obviously a godsend. That is, until this unsustainable bubble bursts.
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Re: Autobuilds of Raze on devbuilds.drdteam.org?

Postby Graf Zahl » Mon Oct 12, 2020 1:16 am

Rachael wrote:
Graf Zahl wrote:Fun stuff: I recently needed a new Mac at work because my old MacBook was showing signs of breaking down. That computer alone cost €1800, and comes with a measly Core i5 3.0 GHz with 6 cores, integrated Intel graphics and a 512 GB SSD. Just for fun I checked an online PC assembler and built a system with the same or comparable components, and the end result was €500. That's the premium Apple demands. And on top of that came software licenses for roughly €500, many of which would not be needed on Windows or Linux because there's free alternatives to choose from that do not exist on macOS. We are talking about a surcharge of roughly €1500, just for the right to use macOS...

My MacBook that I have cost me roughly $800 in 2008. Adjusted for today's inflation and converted to European dollars, that's €828.


Those excessive price hikes have been a thing in recent years only. Apple has always been overpriced but what they charge now is ridiculous. The price difference between a system with a 256 GB SSD and a 512 GB SSD was reportedly €200 according to my company's hardware manager. The actual price difference for the hardware is less than a quarter...

Rachael wrote:For investors, Tim Cook is obviously a godsend. That is, until this unsustainable bubble bursts.


Let's hope it eventually does. Unfortunately, since the iPhone is so popular they can basically do what they want. The iOS developers have no choice but to buy their overpriced computers.
But obviously this will slowly but certainly erode the non-professional segment of Mac customers. From that group I have seen a growing sentiment of dissatisfaction over recent years, so all is not lost.
If Microsoft's bad reputation from the Ballmer years didn't still linger around I'd suspect that the situation on the macOS front would be far more dire.
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Re: Autobuilds of Raze on devbuilds.drdteam.org?

Postby Rachael » Mon Oct 12, 2020 1:22 am

Graf Zahl wrote:Let's hope it eventually does. Unfortunately, since the iPhone is so popular they can basically do what they want. The iOS developers have no choice but to buy their overpriced computers.
But obviously this will slowly but certainly erode the non-professional segment of Mac customers. From that group I have seen a growing sentiment of dissatisfaction over recent years, so all is not lost.
If Microsoft's bad reputation from the Ballmer years didn't still linger around I'd suspect that the situation on the macOS front would be far more dire.

I would agree with you - though it's hard to predict what really will happen. If 2020 has proven anything, it's that companies can be (and usually are) sustained in highly unusual and unnatural ways...

Even if Apple takes the fall, they'll just get some sort of bailout with the excuse "we're trying to prevent the economy from collapsing" (when really it would be better for the economy if they went out of business).
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Re: Autobuilds of Raze on devbuilds.drdteam.org?

Postby Graf Zahl » Mon Oct 12, 2020 2:17 am

I wouldn't expect Apple to fall - they have too much money for that - but parts of their business operations are definitely due for a downscale.
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Re: Autobuilds of Raze on devbuilds.drdteam.org?

Postby sinisterseed » Mon Oct 12, 2020 2:38 am

Apple has been lucky because most of their customers (or supporters, depending on how you look at it) can simply deal with their prices and hostility, and only a number of people can really afford their hardware. The fact that they are still going despite the price hikes only proves they will still be around for a long time, as long as the right people still exist. Brand loyalists and fanboys, especially.

I've never owned a Mac myself, the only Ape product I have is an 80GB iPod Classic a friend gave me many years ago, and I have no desire to ever buy their products willingly. Macs are the best example for me, both underpowered and overpriced, I can build a PC for the same amount of money and it will always blow the Mac out of the water, and iPhones, as tempting as they may have been for me recently, no can do, I absolutely cannot justify the expense when I can get a significantly cheaper Android phone that does what it does, if not more considering the work that's been put in it in the recent years.
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