Download links?

Re: Download links?

Postby Graf Zahl » Sun Feb 16, 2020 9:58 am

No, that's not correct. The Build code comes with a license that prohibits commercial use. The only way around that would be to acquire a license allowing commercial use.
Regarding Ion Fury, VoidPoint would have to get consent from all past and present contributors to EDuke to make IF legal. I somehow doubt they managed to track down everybody to grant them the license exception. Since it was never spelled out before it simply did not exist and that'd put up high obstacles to get around before the package is legally clear.
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Re: Download links?

Postby sinisterseed » Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:01 am

Photonic wrote:The license only applies to build, the engine. I do beleive one can make a commercial game that uses this engine, sell the game for profit(art, sounds, maps...) the engine however needs to be available online for free with a source release.

Tell that to Gearbox...
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Re: Download links?

Postby Rachael » Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:19 am

lowskill. wrote:Tell that to Gearbox...

Considering we live in a society where corporations can get away with murder (and literally do, though not Gearbox specifically), good luck making a case on that.
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Re: Download links?

Postby sinisterseed » Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:23 am

Rachael wrote:
lowskill. wrote:Tell that to Gearbox...

Considering we live in a society where corporations can get away with murder (and literally do, though not Gearbox specifically), good luck making a case on that.

Hence my point.
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Re: Download links?

Postby markanini » Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:42 am

lowskill. wrote:Tell that to Gearbox...

Or tell Ken to lawyer up.
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Re: Download links?

Postby Phredreeke » Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:01 am

Took me a while to get what you were getting at there.

Gearbox does not need to release the source code to Duke3D WT because they're not basing it off GPL code.
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Re: Download links?

Postby Gammli » Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:36 am

Graf Zahl wrote:No, that's not correct. The Build code comes with a license that prohibits commercial use. The only way around that would be to acquire a license allowing commercial use.


[3] Distribution of any derivative works MUST be done completely FREE of
charge - no commercial exploitation whatsoever.

Couldn't you get around this by distributing the binary as a free download separately, and only including the game data in the commercial package?
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Re: Download links?

Postby Graf Zahl » Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:46 am

No. "Commercial exploitation" includes selling add-ons to the engine
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Re: Download links?

Postby Photonic » Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:25 pm

Graf Zahl wrote:No. "Commercial exploitation" includes selling add-ons to the engine

hmmm. is there any precedent of this?
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Re: Download links?

Postby Graf Zahl » Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:35 pm

Sure: Think Third party add-ons for Doom, Quake 1+2 etc.
You cannot just sell such a thing, you have to license the use of the base product.
It's precisely the same if the "base product" is just a naked engine.
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Re: Download links?

Postby Phredreeke » Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:08 pm

Not to mention practical considerations. You're gonna sell a game, and then tell the buyer they need to download the game's engine elsewhere?
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Re: Download links?

Postby Blzut3 » Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:24 pm

Gammli wrote:Couldn't you get around this by distributing the binary as a free download separately, and only including the game data in the commercial package?

To add to what Graf said, depending on what lawyer is giving an opinion commercial use can be defined very broadly. Even running advertisements, having a donation button, or selling physical media at cost can be argued as commercial use, which is partly why projects like Debian have to be so strict on what licenses they deem acceptable.

But even if we ignore potential legal implications, this is ultimately thwarted by the fact that people don't read anything so you'd end up with a ton of angry customers about how you can't just include the binary with the game. So what's the point even if you could?

Even if we were to ignore that, we could talk about how viable your hypothetical product is in the market if you can't afford to license the engine properly. I would be curious to know what Ken typically charges for a commercial license, but I can't imagine it being a life changing amount of money. :P

In short, I don't think the scenario of someone wanting to sell a product based on EDuke32 or Raze is a reason to prefer a clearer/more liberal licensing situation. There are plenty of other reasons though.
Graf Zahl wrote:Regarding Ion Fury, VoidPoint would have to get consent from all past and present contributors to EDuke to make IF legal. I somehow doubt they managed to track down everybody to grant them the license exception. Since it was never spelled out before it simply did not exist and that'd put up high obstacles to get around before the package is legally clear.

I'm wondering now, should we have a CONTRIBUTING.md and possibly a pull request template that explicitly states that all contributions to GZDoom/Raze will be assumed BSD licensed unless otherwise stated? Just thinking about this in the context of the eduke32 developer's concerns about licensing and realizing that this assumption is a lot less clear since GZDoom went with the GPL option for distribution.
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Re: Download links?

Postby Rachael » Sun Feb 16, 2020 4:19 pm

Blzut3 wrote:possibly a pull request template that explicitly states that all contributions to GZDoom/Raze will be assumed BSD licensed unless otherwise stated?

This would really be a good idea.

Make it clear that you must specify a non-BSD license, and if you do specify a license it must be GPL-compliant as per the repo you're targeting (GPL2 for Raze, GPL 3 for GZDoom)

It might be too late to do that for GZDoom, though. And possibly too late for Raze, too.
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Re: Download links?

Postby Phredreeke » Sun Feb 16, 2020 5:34 pm

i understand that it can't apply retroactively but is there anything stopping it from being done for future commits?
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Re: Download links?

Postby Rachael » Sun Feb 16, 2020 5:54 pm

Phredreeke wrote:i understand that it can't apply retroactively but is there anything stopping it from being done for future commits?


Mostly the fact that people don't like change.

We actually had a more, uh ... interesting member of this forum who left recently who was a rabid defender of the GPL because he thought it screwed over corporations - when it was actually provable that it screwed over users far more.
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