Releases

Re: Releases

Postby Talon1024 » Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:22 pm

Graf Zahl wrote:I just finished adding the backend code to Raze - it compiles with the Vulkan and Softpoly backends included, obviously it doesn't run with them yet - the next and most important step will be to connect the Polymost output with the actual backends.


Does this mean that looking up and down will look and/or feel more "natural", and won't be plagued with that stupid y-shearing effect seen in the Polymost renderer?
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Re: Releases

Postby Graf Zahl » Thu Apr 30, 2020 12:20 am

Polymost, by default, does not use y-shearing. I think the problem you describe comes from how the games handle the view pitch. They very much stick to the original concept of just moving the renderer's center line up and down - and from the included game frontends EDuke is the only one that performs this by converting to pitch, then alter it and then convert back. All the other ones operate directly on the center value.

This will have to be changed on the game side, the renderer is not in control. The limited pitch has a different reason, actually two: First, Polymost is not a true 3D renderer and its output would break apart at steeper pitches, but what's even worse is the fragile playsim code, especially Duke's - it cannot handle steeper pitches. If you grafted a 90° capable renderer onto the original Doom engine it'd break apart as well - ZDoom had to do several crucial alterations to the projectile and hitscan code to make it work, but the Doom engine is far less fragile than Duke - with Duke you always run the risk of breaking the game with such changes.
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Re: Releases

Postby sinisterseed » Thu Apr 30, 2020 6:34 am

So basically, true freelook is an enigma in Build then? If only it was more flexible (and not held together by bubblegum but that's a different story)...

True freelook and the sky dome are 2 things I'm eagerly anticipating in terms of rendering (okay, I'm also waiting for a modern renderer that supports more advanced effects than the stone age Polymost as well) since the way sky rendering works in particular right now is just disgraceful... It's gonna have to be the worst sky rendering I've seen in a game up to this day. And it's not even Y-shearing itself that makes me laugh. What bothers me is that looking up/down just feels so incredibly fake, especially in more open areas (see SW's second or third map's open areas for instance, try looking up/down there to see what I mean). It's as if you're moving the world itself instead of changing your view...

The day these problems will be buried into dust is gonna be the best day for Build.
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Re: Releases

Postby Gez » Thu Apr 30, 2020 7:25 am

lowskill. wrote:So basically, true freelook is an enigma in Build then? If only it was more flexible (and not held together by bubblegum but that's a different story)...



And I'm all outta gum!...
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Re: Releases

Postby sinisterseed » Thu Apr 30, 2020 7:43 am

Gez wrote:
lowskill. wrote:So basically, true freelook is an enigma in Build then? If only it was more flexible (and not held together by bubblegum but that's a different story)...

And I'm all outta gum!...

Eh, we should try with glue then :p .
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Re: Releases

Postby Graf Zahl » Thu Apr 30, 2020 10:16 am

I cannot say how the other games will behave - but Duke is a special case with its low quality code full of shortcuts that falls apart on nearly every change you subject it to.
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Re: Releases

Postby sinisterseed » Thu Apr 30, 2020 10:26 am

Graf Zahl wrote:I cannot say how the other games will behave - but Duke is a special case with its low quality code full of shortcuts that falls apart on nearly every change you subject it to.

Do you think IF is going to be just as problematic as Duke regarding this? I mean it uses plenty of ugly code if I recall correctly.
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Re: Releases

Postby NeuralStunner » Thu Apr 30, 2020 12:02 pm

I believe IF is primarily CON wizardry on top of mostly unmodified eDuke, so the answer is probably "yes."
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Re: Releases

Postby Graf Zahl » Thu Apr 30, 2020 12:53 pm

IF is probably the most fragile game of all because it its mostly scripted, so changes to the C code may have some domino effect creating even worse problems.
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Re: Releases

Postby mjr4077au » Thu Apr 30, 2020 4:19 pm

@Graf, just asking here as it's as good a place as any. With both texture_rework/backend_unification branches in GZDoom/Raze, are you wanting bug reports or feedback on anything or would that be more of a "Thank you, Captain Obvious" type thing? I don't want to create unnecessary noise :)

Raze is obviously just not working very well at all as you've said, though I did get some extra stability by bumping up BUFFER_SIZE in flatvertices.h from 2000000 to 8000000. GZDoom on that branch has issues with external texture packs and the BFG IWADs don't seem to work at all, only the proper 1.9 IWADS.
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Re: Releases

Postby Graf Zahl » Thu Apr 30, 2020 4:26 pm

Bug reports for GZDoom are welcome, but Raze is very much WIP state right now - I just got the 2D part moved over to the backend, but the 3D output still needs to be done - and even after it is done, the shader has no means to handle Build's lighting model yet, There's simply no point reporting bugs until it works well enough to play the games again.
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Re: Releases

Postby mjr4077au » Thu Apr 30, 2020 4:50 pm

Ta, will get some bug reports in the GZDoom section for the two issues I've mentioned soon :)
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Re: Releases

Postby MrRumbleRoses » Sat May 23, 2020 9:57 pm

when i try to play this port with controller support. i can't move at all with the joysticks. and it's so weird
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Re: Releases

Postby mjr4077au » Sat May 23, 2020 10:12 pm

It's a known issue still to be worked on. viewtopic.php?f=340&t=67933
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Re: Releases

Postby Graf Zahl » Sun May 31, 2020 3:19 pm

I just managed to finally update Raze to the latest GZDoom backend code without breaking stuff as badly as the last time. At least the important features like camera textures, indexed render mode and voxels are operational, unlike the last time I attempted this. So hopefully this time it can serve its purpose, i.e. migrating Raze to use the full GZDoom backend, like the Vulkan renderer or some more advanced features like using portals for rendering the sky.
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