[No] LZDoom-like version of Raze (maybe call it Laze)

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LZDoom-like version of Raze (maybe call it Laze)

Postby Hydra Spectre » Thu Feb 06, 2020 3:57 am

I have an ancient laptop and I primarily use LZDoom since my 2012-era laptop with Intel Integrated Graphics can't support OpenGL 3.3.
Which is a shame since I was really looking forward to your Raze port. Especially since it brings together all the EDuke32-based ports into one convenient application akin to BuildGDX.
Making a legacy version of Raze similar to LZDoom would be great for people with older hardware.
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Re: LZDoom-like version of Raze (maybe call it Laze)

Postby Graf Zahl » Thu Feb 06, 2020 4:50 am

Sorry, but this won't happen. That would be akin to just merging the base ports into one binary. the entire purpose here was to use the modern features to improve the engine.
There's really not much to gain here that could make it run better than EDuke and the others.

Of course, never say never, but you first need to find someone to do it. But this is unlike GZDoom where an old GL 2 compatible code base existed.
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Re: LZDoom-like version of Raze (maybe call it Laze)

Postby drfrag » Thu Feb 06, 2020 8:30 am

Of course not, there's no old version of Raze. And i've never been very interested in Build nor Build games. I liked Blood but if i had to do a Blood port i'd change the gameplay and first of all i'd get rid of those instant hitscanners. But i finished Witchhaven, can you believe that? :P
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Re: LZDoom-like version of Raze (maybe call it Laze)

Postby Redneckerz » Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:40 am

Hydra Spectre wrote:I have an ancient laptop and I primarily use LZDoom since my 2012-era laptop with Intel Integrated Graphics can't support OpenGL 3.3.
Which is a shame since I was really looking forward to your Raze port. Especially since it brings together all the EDuke32-based ports into one convenient application akin to BuildGDX.
Making a legacy version of Raze similar to LZDoom would be great for people with older hardware.

I knew someone was going to ask something like this :P

Unfortunately, this is not possible. With Graf's rework on Polymost and bringing it to OpenGL 3.3 Core Profile, the original OpenGL 1.1 based code (Which would work on your Intel IGP) had to be dropped. Its the law of perpetuating motion: In order to move forward, you have to eventually drop legacy code. (Unless your angle from the get go is supporting the widest cast of hardware possible, like games like Minecraft/AngelDust do.)

I am however in the same camp as you. I can't run Raze either for the same reason, but ill get by with regular EDuke32.

Graf Zahl wrote:Sorry, but this won't happen. That would be akin to just merging the base ports into one binary. the entire purpose here was to use the modern features to improve the engine.
There's really not much to gain here that could make it run better than EDuke and the others.

Of course, never say never, but you first need to find someone to do it. But this is unlike GZDoom where an old GL 2 compatible code base existed.

I can imagine that simply using the original Polymost code could be used, but given the ancient support of it, it makes little sense. Especially when, as you say, you want to support modern features. In such as case you are better off with EDuke32 and seperate codebases that do support these legacy and fixed function API's.
Last edited by Redneckerz on Thu Feb 06, 2020 12:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: LZDoom-like version of Raze (maybe call it Laze)

Postby sinisterseed » Thu Feb 06, 2020 12:40 pm

Indeed, one of the main priorities of Raze is to actually move Build and the supported games forward, as a result, support for ancient tech had to be dropped, and there isn't any interest in adding support for it back.

Unless contributors expressing interest in this show up at some point in the future, it is safe to assume legacy support will not be making a comeback. It was dropped for a reason after all.
Last edited by sinisterseed on Fri Feb 07, 2020 2:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: LZDoom-like version of Raze (maybe call it Laze)

Postby 3saster » Fri Feb 07, 2020 2:03 pm

Meanwhile, you still have things like this BLOOD Map editor for DOS that is still actively maintained. I really don't understand why some people insist on keeping compatibility as far back as possible...
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Re: LZDoom-like version of Raze (maybe call it Laze)

Postby Graf Zahl » Fri Feb 07, 2020 2:15 pm

That thing is still for DOS because nobody has ever managed to write a working Windows editor for Build. The best you can get is stuff that runs a DOS app recompiled to run in a window - but not for Blood.
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Re: LZDoom-like version of Raze (maybe call it Laze)

Postby Gez » Fri Feb 07, 2020 2:29 pm

I think it's more that nobody was ever interested in actually attempting.
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