General Suggestions for Raze

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General Suggestions for Raze

Postby cubebert » Thu Apr 15, 2021 11:19 am

I'm late to the party, but congrats on the release of Raze 1.0! :thumb:

Having only played the first episode of Duke3D and Blood, I think this would be the perfect way to finish those games along with the rest of the Build library. The only source port for Build that I've used is EDuke32; I've also played a bit of Blood: Fresh Supply and Shadow Warrior Classic Redux, but I would consider them more as rereleases instead of source ports. There are some things that I wanted to put my two cents in that I think would help improve Raze; it's kind of a long list and I don't want to sound like I'm demanding these be added, so please let me know if they aren't doable or aren't worth adding in.

1. One of the reasons I like Raze is that there's the option to disable the palette emulation, which I find useful for OpenGL ports since it makes lighting look less mucky. However, I notice that rooms that are a little dim tend to be very dark and hard to see with the palette emulation off. A good example of this is Blood's first level; on Fresh Supply, it looks normal, but on Raze, the floor is too dark compared to the walls. Is there a way to have a clamp for lighting without palette emulation so that rooms aren't too dark compared to being rendered on software?




2. I notice that the expansion packs for Duke3D and other games are supported, but what about the Cuss Pack for Redneck Rampage? I haven't used it, mainly because I haven't touched RR, but I think in order to install it for the GOG release, you would put the Cuss pack at the same directory as the game. If Raze already has a way to load it either though it's own method or a general way that works with all source ports, then forget what I said.

3. Is there a way to render skies just like how GZDoom does it? Some skies that have buildings and other details like sunrises look a bit odd with freelook. It's hard to put into words, but if you look at Shadow Warrior's city sky, the perspective is wrong with where you're positioned; if you could look all the way up, it would be even worse.



4. Would it be possible to port over some of the console commands from GZDoom into Raze to making debugging and testing easier? I would add in the "buddha", "freeze", "summon" (I think Powerslave has this for one of it's codes, so it might not be too hard to implement), and "fly" commands.

That's all I wanted to say for now about the Raze suggestions. I haven't encountered any major bugs, but I'll write down a list of some oddities and glitches I've found and post them on the Bugs subforum later.
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Re: General Suggestions for Raze

Postby Graf Zahl » Thu Apr 15, 2021 11:45 am

cubebert wrote:1. One of the reasons I like Raze is that there's the option to disable the palette emulation, which I find useful for OpenGL ports since it makes lighting look less mucky. However, I notice that rooms that are a little dim tend to be very dark and hard to see with the palette emulation off. A good example of this is Blood's first level; on Fresh Supply, it looks normal, but on Raze, the floor is too dark compared to the walls. Is there a way to have a clamp for lighting without palette emulation so that rooms aren't too dark compared to being rendered on software?


It does not look like that for me. Whatever happens here shouldn't be like that.The color should be the same overall brightness but with a less reddish brown hue.
What's your system specs?

cubebert wrote:2. I notice that the expansion packs for Duke3D and other games are supported, but what about the Cuss Pack for Redneck Rampage? I haven't used it, mainly because I haven't touched RR, but I think in order to install it for the GOG release, you would put the Cuss pack at the same directory as the game. If Raze already has a way to load it either though it's own method or a general way that works with all source ports, then forget what I said.


The cuss pack is purely optional. You should be able to autoload it if available but this will never be a default setting. For that you have to manually add an entry to the [Redneck.Redneck] autoload section - or 'install' it like it was required for DOS.

cubebert wrote:3. Is there a way to render skies just like how GZDoom does it? Some skies that have buildings and other details like sunrises look a bit odd with freelook. It's hard to put into words, but if you look at Shadow Warrior's city sky, the perspective is wrong with where you're positioned; if you could look all the way up, it would be even worse.


Not with Polymost. You have to wait for the new renderer. It will come but no definitive date yet.

cubebert wrote:4. Would it be possible to port over some of the console commands from GZDoom into Raze to making debugging and testing easier? I would add in the "buddha", "freeze", "summon" (I think Powerslave has this for one of it's codes, so it might not be too hard to implement), and "fly" commands.


This is not Doom. Variations of 'summon' already exist for some of the games, but the others are too specific to how Doom works and cannot be easily ported over.
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Re: General Suggestions for Raze

Postby cubebert » Thu Apr 15, 2021 6:09 pm

Graf Zahl wrote:It does not look like that for me. Whatever happens here shouldn't be like that.The color should be the same overall brightness but with a less reddish brown hue.
What's your system specs?

I've got an Nvidia GeForce 960 and an Intel Core i5-4690K CPU @ 3.50 GHz. I'm also using Windows 7 64-bit to run Raze 1.0.1; I'll leave my config file as an attachment in case it helps.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
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Re: General Suggestions for Raze

Postby sinisterseed » Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:32 am

The obvious suggestion for the second Blood screenshot would be updating your drivers.

That looks very broken and not how it should be at all, but it's normal on my end on both backends. I noticed other anomalies there, in the spider webs. They should be transparent if I recall, but yours are opaque.

You're running W7 too. Is there a particular reason for it? 7 has been dead for a year now. Judging by your specs, you should handle 10 (or 8.1 if not) just fine.
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Re: General Suggestions for Raze

Postby cubebert » Sat Apr 17, 2021 5:56 pm

I went ahead and updated the drivers, and it fixed it. Thanks for the help, sinisterseed!

As for why I haven't updated to Windows 10, it's mostly because compatibility with older games from the late 90's-early 2000's is better with 7. I'm sure programs like DxWnd would help with getting them to load on Windows 10, but I'm not ready to upgrade yet.
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Re: General Suggestions for Raze

Postby sinisterseed » Sun Apr 18, 2021 4:31 am

Alright then, glad a simple driver update fixed your rendering issues, I assume you must have been on a fairly old version to trigger such an anomaly.
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Re: General Suggestions for Raze

Postby Trusty McLegit » Mon Apr 19, 2021 11:57 am

As far as the sky box rendering and the new renderer, I know there's no date on how long that will take, but are you thinking it'll be within a few months, or more like a year plus?
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Re: General Suggestions for Raze

Postby Graf Zahl » Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:17 pm

The base for the new renderer is already available in a work branch. A first preview should be available soon, the rest will depend on the feedback.
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Re: General Suggestions for Raze

Postby Trusty McLegit » Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:42 pm

That's great to hear! Keep up the amazing work!
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Re: General Suggestions for Raze

Postby mdvhimself » Thu May 13, 2021 2:05 pm

- i honestly wouldnt mind a working gl_fog command to disable fog completly like in eduke32 r_usenewshading
- and a scaleable difficulty section for blood in case someone doesnt know the cultists spawns by heart.
- i would love a split hud
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Re: General Suggestions for Raze

Postby Graf Zahl » Thu May 13, 2021 2:21 pm

To disable fog, use "gl_fogmode 0".
How is that "scaleable difficuly" supposed to work?
Split HUD requires new graphics. I won't cannibalize GDX.
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Re: General Suggestions for Raze

Postby sinisterseed » Fri May 14, 2021 4:23 am

Graf Zahl wrote:How is that "scaleable difficuly" supposed to work?

I think mdv is referring to something similar to what Fresh Supply did, allowing the player to more or less customize their own difficult skill.
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Re: General Suggestions for Raze

Postby Rachael » Fri May 14, 2021 5:55 am

That is something GZDoom does. Implementing this for every single game will be a bit time consuming though, and considering bad coding practices I am not even sure there would be a single point of implementation for this - I kind of worry that this would have to be done for every single different sprite that is capable of AI code.
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Re: General Suggestions for Raze

Postby Graf Zahl » Fri May 14, 2021 6:09 am

It's a lot more complicated in the Build games. They all use different data and it is very often far less organized than what Doom has.
Especially in Duke with its very, very messy data it's going to be a problem I presume.

Definitely not even remotely a priority.
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Re: General Suggestions for Raze

Postby Rachael » Fri May 14, 2021 8:12 am

If I do get some time to do it myself I plan to route everything either through a single function or a tiny set of functions, for all games - that way if the modding capabilities of the engine ever expand in the future the next coder will be able to take advantage of the pipelining already done and have it a little bit easier.
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