[0.4.5] [Blood] Some textures flicker

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[0.4.5] [Blood] Some textures flicker

Postby markanini » Mon Feb 17, 2020 2:10 am

The lighting fixture and signs on the sides flicker in this hall section as you move from side to side.
https://streamable.com/xorbo
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Re: [0.4.5] [Blood] Some textures flicker

Postby Graf Zahl » Mon Feb 17, 2020 2:18 am

Where in the game is this? Can you post a savegame at that location?
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Re: [0.4.5] [Blood] Some textures flicker

Postby markanini » Mon Feb 17, 2020 2:24 am

Blood base game. Save file: https://www.dropbox.com/transfer/AAAAAF ... 9Dqymck0Vc Oddly it only happens when the doors are closed and the light fixture is broken.
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Re: [0.4.5] [Blood] Some textures flicker

Postby sinisterseed » Mon Feb 17, 2020 3:32 am

This is probably also related to wallsprites flickering in general.

I can easily reproduce this even when the light isn't broken, in which case the wallsprites just flicker, but for some reason breaking it causes that black flickering around the light fixture for a split second.
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Re: [0.4.5] [Blood] Some textures flicker

Postby Graf Zahl » Mon Feb 17, 2020 3:50 am

This is something that's probably not fixable without rewriting the renderer. This code is in such a dismal state that I simply do not know where to start with it. Ultimately it's a design flaw in the Build engine - it seems to determine ad-hoc what a wall sprite may be attached to, and that has some pretty unpleasant implications on how they get rendered.

Have you ever tried hitting the same wall with the pitchfork over and over again and then enjoyed the glitchy hit marks? It looks awful.
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Re: [0.4.5] [Blood] Some textures flicker

Postby sinisterseed » Mon Feb 17, 2020 3:55 am

Ah yes, the Build rendering glory :V .

But I wonder why it doesn't happen in the other ports, that's what makes me think this is probably just some missing/leftover code that doesn't play well with the new backend at all. But since Polymer is a dead end anyway, perhaps it really is time to just shift focus to a new renderer.
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Re: [0.4.5] [Blood] Some textures flicker

Postby Graf Zahl » Mon Feb 17, 2020 4:35 am

I really have no idea, it seems that some minor part must have changed in the transition to my own backend.

I'll shift focus to the new renderer once the games are all working. I think with Duke and Blood we are on a good way right now, so SW will be next.
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Re: [0.4.5] [Blood] Some textures flicker

Postby markanini » Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:10 am

So essentially, much of the games core behavior is inexplicably married to it's renderer. Which in turn consists of obsolete code and black magic. I can imagine the frustration Kaiser had to deal with this too.
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Re: [0.4.5] [Blood] Some textures flicker

Postby sinisterseed » Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:13 am

markanini wrote:So essentially, much of the games core behavior is inexplicably married to it's renderer. Which in turn consists of obsolete code and black magic. I can imagine the frustration Kaiser had to deal with this too.

I don't think he did honestly.

I recall reading that Kaiser essentially used 0 Build engine code. They basically disassembled the entire game and moved it to an entirely new engine (KEX) and left it at that, likely because making sense of it would've been a living nightmare, as we can see here.
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Re: [0.4.5] [Blood] Some textures flicker

Postby Graf Zahl » Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:20 am

It's really too bad that the FS engine is closed source. That's something I'd really like to have a look at - a different engine capable of rendering Build levels.
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Re: [0.4.5] [Blood] Some textures flicker

Postby markanini » Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:42 am

lowskill. wrote:I don't think he did honestly.

I've seen him or Edward850 mention that parts of Build code were still referenced within KEX. Some one else can make the educated guess on which parts.
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Re: [0.4.5] [Blood] Some textures flicker

Postby sinisterseed » Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:09 am

Yeah, me too, what a complete waste that it was closed source, but I can see why - not wanting anything to do with the original source, which is currently owned by WB and they were not involved in the process at all, even though it was not a faithful recreation anyway, as it can be seen in FS' gameplay which is not vanilla accurate.
markanini wrote:
lowskill. wrote:I don't think he did honestly.

I've seen him or Edward850 mention that parts of Build code were still referenced within KEX. Some one else can make the educated guess on which parts.

My guess is game logic, and some rendering elements such as the ROR shenanigans and portals. Everything else was completely new I think - even the collision code was entirely rebuilt, but it was still very glitchy - FS' crushers are notorious for killing the player while being raised, and not crushing the player when they actually hit them.
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Re: [0.4.5] [Blood] Some textures flicker

Postby Graf Zahl » Tue Mar 03, 2020 1:41 am

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Re: [0.4.5] [Blood] Some textures flicker

Postby axredneck » Tue Mar 03, 2020 1:06 pm

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Re: [0.4.5] [Blood] Some textures flicker

Postby Graf Zahl » Tue Mar 03, 2020 1:15 pm

I'm already using that - the problem lies elsewhere. IIRC Build works by rotating the wall sprite into the proper orientation with its crude fixed point trig functions and those are wayyy to imprecise. But it's hard to change because too much math is done in fixed point instead of converting to float as soon as possible and use higher precision math. Last year some already existing float math was even converted back to fixed point for unknown reasons!
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