Disable Automap

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Graf Zahl
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Re: Disable Automap

Post by Graf Zahl »

You know: I don't give a shit what you people want to do with the engine but here's the facts:

1. Is *IS* a first-person shooter
2. Automap is a basic feature of it and the only way to disable it is to abuse other engine features.
3. If I detect some abusive use of certain features in released mods I'm going to add a kill switch for the user if possible in any way.

The problem is not the odd mod that wants to do something different but stuff like Legacy of Suffering that went out of its way to make the automap unusable with its same-y levels which were a chore to navigate without.
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Chl
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Re: Disable Automap

Post by Chl »

Graf Zahl wrote:You know: I don't give a shit what you people want to do with the engine
And that's how it should be. Please don't create a bunch of limits just because someone made a shitty mod.
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edward850
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Re: Disable Automap

Post by edward850 »

I like how it's 2016 and people start arguments over if the automap is allowed to be gimped or not in a Doom source port.

My favourite part thus far was the argument that somehow managed to compare it to wanting to switch off archviles, despite archviles already being a part of Doom, and not gimping any expected user interfaces.

Come on guys. Really? The automap? This is getting really absurd. Not sure if I should rate this higher or lower than saved games in the 'List of inane Doom feature arguments'.
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Chl
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Re: Disable Automap

Post by Chl »

edward850 wrote:Not sure if I should rate this higher or lower than saved games in the 'List of inane Doom feature arguments'.
Funny that you brought that up since that is also relevant to my mod. I guess someone have made a comment about saves should be able to be turned off? If that's the case I agree that they should. In my mod for example, a little scene will play out before killing the player and if he were to save during that point the save and the game would be fucked. What I'm trying to say is; Give the modmakers absolute control and then it's up to you to choose to play it or not.
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Graf Zahl
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Re: Disable Automap

Post by Graf Zahl »

Two words: Won't happen!
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edward850
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Re: Disable Automap

Post by edward850 »

Hate to cut your crusade short guys, but MaxED's example doesn't even work properly as it turns out. See the HudMessage display doesn't actually have any state for the overlay automap, so all it does is inconvenience the automap. This then stems back into the "You can't actually predict where the automap will be" situation with multi-monitor or overlays, which as it turns out is already relevant. :P

Chl wrote:
edward850 wrote:Not sure if I should rate this higher or lower than saved games in the 'List of inane Doom feature arguments'.
Funny that you brought that up since that is also relevant to my mod. I guess someone have made a comment about saves should be able to be turned off? If that's the case I agree that they should. In my mod for example, a little scene will play out before killing the player and if he were to save during that point the save and the game would be fucked. What I'm trying to say is; Give the modmakers absolute control and then it's up to you to choose to play it or not.

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zrrion the insect
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Re: Disable Automap

Post by zrrion the insect »

Graf Zahl wrote:Legacy of Suffering that went out of its way to make the automap unusable with its same-y levels which were a chore to navigate without.

LoS was bad so all modders should be punished

I could understand Graf saying "I don't like that feature, so I'm not going to do it myself" but to refuse to add it to the engine seems a tad extreme
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printz
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Re: Disable Automap

Post by printz »

I understand the automap makes sense in the modern world, but I suppose that if the mod were in the middle ages, our hero would open his wax tablet and start scratching a rough map of the area? I believe this is what a lone survivor/adventurer would and should do... So in any case, I understand the excuse that the automap MUST BE AVAILABLE because it simply replaces the effort of the human player of drawing it on a notebook.

I still don't like this attitude that the port needs to handhold the player by overriding the mod. Seems nanny-like.
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edward850
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Re: Disable Automap

Post by edward850 »

zrrion the insect wrote:I could understand Graf saying "I don't like that feature, so I'm not going to do it myself" but to refuse to add it to the engine seems a tad extreme

If you read the thread, you'll notice no new feature has been suggested, sans the one removing a potential vector of inconveniencing (as it doesn't actually prevent the automap from being seen). What's more, it was well established several times that disabling the automap would somehow require quantum mechanics if you were to also enable it being displayed on a second screen. You can't have something be both enabled and disabled at the same time.
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Graf Zahl
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Re: Disable Automap

Post by Graf Zahl »

printz wrote:I still don't like this attitude that the port needs to handhold the player by overriding the mod. Seems nanny-like.


And I think when it comes to UI features the player (as in the actual human being playing the game) should be the ultimate controlling instance.
Nevander
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Re: Disable Automap

Post by Nevander »

Why not make a new MAPINFO property called NoAutomap or something that will disable the automap on a per-level basis or by adding it to defaultmap. Nothing wrong with having options.
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edward850
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Re: Disable Automap

Post by edward850 »

Nevander wrote:Why not make a new MAPINFO property called NoAutomap or something that will disable the automap on a per-level basis or by adding it to defaultmap. Nothing wrong with having options.

edward850 wrote:What's more, it was well established several times that disabling the automap would somehow require quantum mechanics if you were to also enable it being displayed on a second screen. You can't have something be both enabled and disabled at the same time.

At best this thread has established that what I should be doing this weekend is adding multi-monitor automap support. It's been long requested and long overdue.
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MaxED
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Re: Disable Automap

Post by MaxED »

Can we (as modders) have more control over already existing features instead?..
Personally, I'd like to be able to do the following:
1. Enable dynamic lights and set their radius, intensity and renderslyle via MAPINFO (otherwise there is no way to guarantee that dynamic lights used for any gameplay purpose will work as intended on player's side).
2. Enable models via MAPINFO.
3. Disable alternative HUD via MAPINFO (because it's impossible to make it work when using ACS-driven HUD tied to ACS-driven gameplay mechanics).
4. Tweak player view bob factor (because it looks strange when using custom player speed).
5. Draw HudMessages using the brightness & color of the sector player is in.
6. Have more shader control (like the ability to access texture's brightmap, or the ability to replace dynamic light rendering logic with a custom one).
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Chl
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Re: Disable Automap

Post by Chl »

MaxED wrote: Text
Then I would like to add some things too:
  • Be able to set automap to enabled/disabled in MAPINFO
  • Add a DECORATE that can override previous point
  • Add a CVAR that can override previous points
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Dancso
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Re: Disable Automap

Post by Dancso »

edward850 wrote:disabling the automap would somehow require quantum mechanics if you were to also enable it being displayed on a second screen. You can't have something be both enabled and disabled at the same time.

How about assigning the automap to said second monitor but to then disable it, paint a big black rectangle all over it?

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