12 Sided sprites?

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12 Sided sprites?

Postby Tragos » Sun Apr 04, 2010 8:34 pm

Does anyone know if Zdoom supports 12 sided sprites for Monsters/Players?
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Re: 12 Sided sprites?

Postby NeuralStunner » Sun Apr 04, 2010 8:49 pm

1, 8, or 16. That's it.
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Re: 12 Sided sprites?

Postby Ichor » Mon Apr 05, 2010 4:27 am

No, but you can fake it (sort of). I have a sprite that uses this without any problems:

A1
A3A7
A5
A9AG
AAAF
ABAE
ACAD
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Re: 12 Sided sprites?

Postby Tragos » Mon Apr 05, 2010 6:02 pm

Explain what you mean by faking it exactly? I'm not following you exactly...
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Re: 12 Sided sprites?

Postby corysykes » Mon Apr 05, 2010 6:34 pm

do you know what decorate is if not there are many tutorials on the wiki
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Re: 12 Sided sprites?

Postby TheDarkArchon » Mon Apr 05, 2010 6:35 pm

corysykes wrote:do you know what decorate is if not there are many tutorials on the wiki


Because 12 sided sprites, faked or otherwise, is completely DECORATE related.
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Re: 12 Sided sprites?

Postby Tragos » Tue Apr 06, 2010 4:15 pm

Yes I know what Decorate is lol. I was hoping for something more elaborate than just "fake it (sort of)".... This is not my first time using Zdoom corysykes and TheDarkArchon, but I apologize if you find my question silly. I'm just trying to forsee if their is any issues involving the use of 12 sided sprites that I need to be aware of. Since I've not seen any good examples, can either of you offer me one? My project is a port of Aliens Online, the characters sprites in AO are 12 sided and not 8... So before I go through the trouble of animated all those extra frames I want to be sure everything will work correctly. I didn't quite at first understand when you first said "Faked", I've never actually tried to use anything more than 8 frames so I just want to avoid doing extra work if I can't use it. I'm considering just using 8 but I like the smoothness that the 4 extra frames provide. Whether or not it's logical to use 12 or not is not just purely cosmetic, because I have certain constraints 'm also working within... For example if I had 5 monsters with * 20 frames * 8 rotations * 512x512 textures * 3 bytes per texture = 630 MB of video ram required for optimal performance. These kind of graphical requirements are out of range for my target audience. So there is more to consider here than you might realize.

Sprite Specs:
Sprites 128x128 up to 320x240
40kb per frame
Total sprites folder less than 15mb

My target system specs are something like this:
P4 2.0ghz or greater.
128mb Graphics Card
512mb ram or better.
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Re: 12 Sided sprites?

Postby Ceeb » Tue Apr 06, 2010 4:55 pm

I'm sorry, but roflwut?
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Re: 12 Sided sprites?

Postby juizzysquirt » Tue Apr 06, 2010 5:21 pm

Tragos wrote:For example if I had 5 monsters with * 20 frames * 8 rotations * 512x512 textures * 3 bytes per texture = 630 MB of video ram required for optimal performance. These kind of graphical requirements are out of range for my target audience. So there is more to consider here than you might realize.


Ugh... I take it you don't have a slightest clue how textures and sprites are handled by the renderer, or by the hardware? That's ok, neither do I, but I think there's something not quite right in your calculations... :P
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Re: 12 Sided sprites?

Postby Demolisher » Tue Apr 06, 2010 6:39 pm

Tragos wrote:For example if I had 5 monsters with * 20 frames * 8 rotations * 512x512 textures * 3 bytes per texture = 630 MB of video ram required for optimal performance. These kind of graphical requirements are out of range for my target audience. So there is more to consider here than you might realize.


If this was the case, then AEoD would crash supercomputers. Besides, you shouldn't calculate 512x512 in there, or 3 bytes per texture. It should be more like: 5 monsters * 20 frames * 8 rots * average texture file size.
Or even better, size of extracted textures not packed in a pk3.
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Re: 12 Sided sprites?

Postby phi108 » Tue Apr 06, 2010 6:40 pm

Ichor wrote:No, but you can fake it (sort of). I have a sprite that uses this without any problems:

A1
A3A7
A5
A9AG
AAAF
ABAE
ACAD


Just to confirm, I just tested this method by switching around zombieman frame names, and deleting the A2A8 frame, and it works. The zombieman displays 12 different angles (using Iwad sprites) when strafing around it, with no disappearing gaps, which is surprising.

I'm guessing some of those angles might display for a greater percentage of the 360 degrees than others, but I don't know.
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Re: 12 Sided sprites?

Postby Enjay » Tue Apr 06, 2010 6:42 pm

The question is, is it meant to work? If not, it's probably undefined behaviour and liable to break.
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Re: 12 Sided sprites?

Postby NeuralStunner » Tue Apr 06, 2010 7:21 pm

phi108 wrote:Just to confirm, I just tested this method by switching around zombieman frame names, and deleting the A2A8 frame, and it works.

You're certain it wasn't using the IWAD's POSSA2A8 anyway? I'm sure I've gotten complaints over missing rotations before...
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Re: 12 Sided sprites?

Postby Tragos » Tue Apr 06, 2010 8:34 pm

b00mstick wrote:Ugh... I take it you don't have a slightest clue how textures and sprites are handled by the renderer, or by the hardware? That's ok, neither do I, but I think there's something not quite right in your calculations... :P


No my calculations weren't approximate, nor did I mean them to be. Kinda missing the point... If we where talking about Gzdoom I'd assume it would load all the texture and sprite data into the 3d card.. Can you honestly imagine 20 enemies or more with sprite data over 1 meg a frame run at a decent fps? 20x8=160. Again, maybe both my logic and math is just fukked up. :mrgreen:

Enjay wrote:The question is, is it meant to work? If not, it's probably undefined behaviour and liable to break.

Finally, someone with a useful comment. :)

Demolisher wrote:If this was the case, then AEoD would crash supercomputers. Besides, you shouldn't calculate 512x512 in there, or 3 bytes per texture. It should be more like: 5 monsters * 20 frames * 8 rots * average texture file size.
Or even better, size of extracted textures not packed in a pk3.


I've already seen this discussed, there is a project for Edge being developed called "Doomed Again" which make's use of very high resolution sprites. The author had to shrink the size of the sprites during rotation to keep everything running smooth. Attack and death frames remain at 512x512 still far as I know. Am I the only one who's actually witnessed a doom mod cause a PC stutter? :?
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Re: 12 Sided sprites?

Postby phi108 » Tue Apr 06, 2010 8:53 pm

NeuralStunner wrote:....the IWAD's POSSA2A8 anyway?


I just modified the PossA frames of a copied iwad, so there was no Possa2a8 frame anywhere. Faster than making a pwad, anyway.

There were no errors in the console. I wonder if Zdoom extends the coverage of available rotations if it detects missing rotations while using the 16 angle format..... source code, anyone?
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