The [Monster Resource Wad] NG* (Update: 11/12, Page 15)

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Postby Cutmanmike » Thu Aug 03, 2006 2:47 am

KingofFlames wrote:
Graf Zahl wrote:No, this should be a completely separate project!

Why do you think that? There should be a few new additions at least....


Sorry but i'm with the wintex hater on this one. I can't see anyone using that mini cyberdemon thing. Or the zombie flyer. Why would a zombie be flying that anyway?

IMO this resources shouldn't exist. I don't mind the weapons one that much beacuse I can see use for those but seeing the same monster over and over in different wads gets very annoying. I'd rather see some 100% original monsters never seen before than see these being used again and again.
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Postby Graf Zahl » Thu Aug 03, 2006 2:56 am

Seeing the new submissions so far it should be obvious why the old monster WAD didn't see any further development beyond its current state.

I got a few submisisons after the last upload but none was particularly good. However I apparently forgot to upload the version with the fixed Terror but to be honest, did anyone use it ever? For what it's worth I will upload the fixed version that should have been in the archive for almost 2 years and be done with it. And please leave it alone. Nobody demands that all new monsters have to be in the same file.
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Postby Tormentor667 » Thu Aug 03, 2006 3:23 am

Wow, almost one day old and this thread has already 3 pages of replies :) This looks promising ;) Now some answers for you from me:

@jimmi
Also, I take it no direct rips from other games like Blood and DN3D are allowed? But what if they are SLIGHTLY modified, with a new recolor or something?

There must be more changes than only palette adjustments if you want to add Blood or DN3D monsters but if you deliver a very good and interesting DECORATE behaviour, nothing is impossible then, though I recommend that you do a bit more to other games' sprites to make it fit better to the Doom environment!

@cutty
More lame edits i've seen time and time again

The PigCop Flyer edit isn't finished, its WIP that I won't work on anymore and thats why I put it up. I'd recommend removing the shotgun, making the zombie use his hands to fly the thing and maybe give him something like a "Visor" (Quake3 Char) goggle or whatever :)

@kof
I already made the Scythe Soldier if you want it Tormentor.
EDIT: and I'm making the Zombie Flyer right now,

Upload everything you have :) Maybe we can enhance it or it is good enough to be already added to the resource. Oh and by the way: Make the Flyer die as the one in DN3D :) (rotatitng, smoking and exploding, leaving a zombie on the ground ;))

@blade
I can't help but giggle at the Heavy Weapon Demon.
It looks indeed a bit silly ;) But well, maybe someone can do something with it. Those monsters I put up can be used freely!

@bouncy
question; any heretic/hexen-ish or based monsters allowed? because I got a ton of recolors I made from those and i'd like to put them to good use.

The resource wad isn't called "Doom Monster Resource Wad" so I don't see any reason why not, though I have to admit I prefer doom monsters. If you still want to add Heretic/Hexen edits, feel free to do so but make them quality edits.... I will put this in the rules now!

@lordmattus
We need those demon eclipse monsters to go into the Monster Resource Pack! I like them!

Positive! I will add them! :)

@enjay
The problem with Heretic and Hexen monsters (IMO) is that they are very obviously Heretic and Hexen monsters and just not Doomy.

True but as I said before: It's a monster resource wad and not a Doom Monster Resource WAD :) I mean, did the Imp Warlord ever fit into the rest?! :) ZDoom is capable of running Heretic and Hexen, so there's nothing that speaks against it ;)

@capvictris
Wait... there were 2 Monster Resource wads? Where? I thought there was only one! (Yes, I am constantly on the search for monster resources.)

The second one was just an update to the first one!

@nightmare
No, it's from a wad called Cringe!, which was released way back in 1994.

Exactly!

@grafzahl
Why does this have to be an update to the old monster WAD anyway? Why not a new one? And removing the one monster he doesn't like is rather disrespectful to the work he intends to replace.
No, this should be a completely separate project!

Simple answer, first the v2 is full of bugs and one of the v3 aims is to remove these bugs. Second I thought we have so many new monsters, it really would make sense to update this package (also regarding the release of KDiZD). I already thought of creating a new one, but... well, we are all lazy and it is easier to just download one file instead of two ;) And conc. the removal and disrespect: I'm sorry for this, but I think (and this is something many of us do) that the scorpion just didn't fit, that has already been discussed in the developement times of v2.

@boundy
since i'm not Tormentor I wouldn't know, but I think it's because the MRW needed updating and bug fixing so Torm figured why not have new submissions as well.

Exactly, that is what I have thought!

@solar
Best not to tarnish the original WAD. The MRW had it's time and place. It had it's own milestones and technical achievements. Times have changed. Make a new one, or make nothing, I say.

You've got a point here... well, maybe it's enough when I rename the new project into something different?!

@cutty
Why would a zombie be flying that anyway?
Ask yourself why a zombie holds a shotgun and wants to kill marines instead of demons. Same story!
but seeing the same monster over and over in different wads gets very annoying.

You did see the same monsters from doom and doom2 for years over and over again, why do you bother now?

@zahl
Seeing the new submissions so far it should be obvious why the old monster WAD didn't see any further development beyond its current state.

This thread now lasts for less time than a day, maybe you should be a bit patient!? :) Don't be so pessimistic man, Eriance did great monsters and for the sake of having them in the next mrw it makes sense to have this :)
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Postby Tormentor667 » Thu Aug 03, 2006 3:33 am

Concerning your new Entries
Here you will get some comments on your new entries you have posted so far:

@TheDarkArchon conc. Xtra Sprites - Looks good, is it enough to just add them to the resource wad (and overwrite the existing ones if necessary)?

@KingOfFlames - The Ial is crap and won't be added. The ScytheSoldier is okay but I would change a few things: First make the melee damage larger (it's a scythe, c'mon ;)), second reduce his hitpoints (he is too strong and third maybe add a charge attack (like the lost soul has one). The ZombieFlyers DECORATE is crap, sorry to say this, but I more likely will use Bouncys version!

@Bouncy - The Flyer is cool, but I'd like to see projectile based attacks, would that be possible?

@LordMattus - As Bouncy said, overpowered and too strong. What I'd like to see on that one would be something like a "Alpha BFG" attack with bouncing projectiles and stuff, just like the alpha bfg had :)
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Postby Enjay » Thu Aug 03, 2006 4:00 am

Tormentor667 wrote:@enjay True but as I said before: It's a monster resource wad and not a Doom Monster Resource WAD :) I mean, did the Imp Warlord ever fit into the rest?! :) ZDoom is capable of running Heretic and Hexen, so there's nothing that speaks against it ;)


Fair point. But if it is a *MRW, not a DMRW then surely the monsters should be available in palettes that match the games the sprites are most suited for? If they are all in the Doom palette, then clearly they are intended for Doom. Perhaps the sprites could be inserted as PNG graphics in their own palette an (fingers crossed) Zdoom would do a good enough job of converting them itself. GZDoom, of course, would not convert at all and they would appear just fine in their own, original palettes. Or perhaps more than one WAD is required?

Oh, and I agree, the Imp Warlord never seemed like a Doom monster to me. Nor did the Ophidian with the Hellknight legs (I forget what it's called) which is why I included it in my recent Heretic WAD. ;)


Oh, and the file in the archives right now says

v3.0 contains a few minor bugfixes and some new monsters:
-The Plasma Elemental
-The Maelstrom
-The Cacolich
-The RifleZombie
-The SpreadFireZombie


What I would really like to see is more sprites to the quality of the Cacolich. I've always thought that thing was stunning: clearly based on a Doom monster yet quite different in appearance and a really skanky, horrible looking monster - great!

I should finish my plague imp sprites. They've been gathering dust for a couple of years now. I just can't figure out how I want to do the attack frames yet. :?
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Postby NiGHTMARE » Thu Aug 03, 2006 4:21 am

Doesn't the Scorpion Mastermind belong in the Boss Resource WAD, anyway?
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Postby Graf Zahl » Thu Aug 03, 2006 4:26 am

Tormentor667 wrote:Simple answer, first the v2 is full of bugs and one of the v3 aims is to remove these bugs. Second I thought we have so many new monsters, it really would make sense to update this package (also regarding the release of KDiZD). I already thought of creating a new one, but... well, we are all lazy and it is easier to just download one file instead of two ;) And conc. the removal and disrespect: I'm sorry for this, but I think (and this is something many of us do) that the scorpion just didn't fit, that has already been discussed in the developement times of v2.



Sorry but I disagree.

First, v2 was already updated with a bugfix version shortly after.
Second, I looked through it and the only real bug I know of is the Terror.
Third, I uploaded the version with this fix today to the archives.
Fourth, we all know what happened to the WRW.
Fifth, if you want to remove *anything* from the WAD you show a certain kind of disrespect to the original authors. I don't like that thing either but it was in and it stays in.

If you want to do your thing, fine, but leave the old one in peace then. To update it you'd need the permission of one of the original uploaders. And since Nanami is gone and I won't give it you can't. Create your own monster resource if you like to. There you can do whatever you want.
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Postby Alterworldruler » Thu Aug 03, 2006 4:44 am

So... tormentor create other monster resource wad!
I would like to see Big robot
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Postby Tormentor667 » Thu Aug 03, 2006 4:50 am

Graf Zahl wrote:If you want to do your thing, fine, but leave the old one in peace then. To update it you'd need the permission of one of the original uploaders. And since Nanami is gone and I won't give it you can't. Create your own monster resource if you like to. There you can do whatever you want.

Fine, I am okay with it and in a few ways I even do understand what you mean but well... let's forget about that. But could you be so kind and give me the fix for the Terror and stuff so I can adjust my latest version on hd?
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Postby Tormentor667 » Thu Aug 03, 2006 4:54 am

Enjay wrote:I should finish my plague imp sprites. They've been gathering dust for a couple of years now. I just can't figure out how I want to do the attack frames yet. :?

I'd still love to see that finished... maybe the plague imp could toss with rotten bones and flesh and puke poison clouds?!
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Postby Cutmanmike » Thu Aug 03, 2006 4:58 am

About lame edits: It's because I know that the originals AREN'T lame edits.
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Postby Enjay » Thu Aug 03, 2006 5:00 am

Tormentor667 wrote:maybe the plague imp could toss with rotten bones and flesh and puke poison clouds?!


Yeah, that's along the lines I was thinking of. It's not so much what the attack will do that I have a problem with, it's how the sprites should look and stand. I've done a couple of abortive attemps that just looked crap. I'd quite like to make the melee attack a bit like the Zombies in "Dredd versus Death" ie when they got close enough to you they would lunge forward, flailing their arms, and hit you 4 or 4 times as you tried to back off. The problem is, that would need the attack frames to be a combination of flailing arms and walking and my skills with graphics haven't allowed me to do something I find acceptable yet. :?
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Postby Tormentor667 » Thu Aug 03, 2006 5:01 am

Cutmanmike wrote:About lame edits: It's because I know that the originals AREN'T lame edits.

That's actually true ;)

BTW conc. this "PigCop Flyer": DN3D has this tank, maybe with a bit of recolor work and a zombie in there, we could also use this :) Any volunteers? :)
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Postby Enjay » Thu Aug 03, 2006 5:09 am

The tank was already done for a friendlies WAD, or a marines WAD or something IIRC. In fact, I'm pretty sure I modified some of the DECORATE for it. It has a marine, rather than a zombie, in it though.
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Postby Tormentor667 » Thu Aug 03, 2006 5:12 am

@Enjay - I think that won't be a big deal to make the marine look like a zombie :) So where can I get the file?
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