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Re: QZDoom - ZDoom with True-Color (Version 1.2.2 released!)

PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 10:49 pm
by dpJudas
RaVeN-05 wrote:What about partial sprite lightning ? viewtopic.php?p=979567#p979567

That was a bug - but QZDoom does have dynamic lights on the sprites now.

Re: QZDoom - ZDoom with True-Color (Version 1.2.2 released!)

PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 4:46 am
by RaVeN-05
But it possible to make this as feature, mean partially shadowed\lighted sprite.
Its looking very awesome.

i mean to be something like this: (edited in photoshop)
Image

Re: QZDoom - ZDoom with True-Color (Version 1.2.2 released!)

PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 5:16 am
by Nash
That looks like volumetric lighting... do many games even do that?

Re: QZDoom - ZDoom with True-Color (Version 1.2.2 released!)

PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 5:32 am
by Graf Zahl
Such lighting is technically doable if each sector rendered only the part of the sprite that's inside it. But that is a) not how Doom works and b) would be rather costly on maps with a lot of sprites.

For line portals such an approach was necessary and it requires some non-trivial data structures to keep workload low.

Re: QZDoom - ZDoom with True-Color (Version 1.2.2 released!)

PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 6:29 am
by ZZYZX
It already works that way with vertical light differences (3D floor, or various transfers). Are you sure that doing the same for sector lights is going to increase the load much more for sprites not being on sector edges?

edit: example.
Note that if you use XY-billboarding it also splits it correctly (example), which means that it already does pretty complex clipping.

Re: QZDoom - ZDoom with True-Color (Version 1.2.2 released!)

PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 6:44 am
by Graf Zahl
Yes, it will. The problem is that a horizontal sprite split is trivial to calculate, but a vertical one will require far more calculations.

For 3D floors I only need to check the 3D floor data in the current sector, i.e. step through a single array with only a handful of entries.
For splitting between sectors I need to find the exact line and the exact point where the split occurs, and this will require testing a lot of lines or adding some maintenance structures like I did for portal lines to reduce the amount of data to be tested. And now if you imagine a larger map where lots of sprites are getting processed this can quickly add up to several milliseconds.
And it will get even trickier if you factor in models, flat sprites and billboarding because all these will make this a 3D operation, not 2D.

Regarding your image, don't be fooled. It uses hardware clip planes to split non-trivial objects - they actually get rendered twice in their entirety with different clip settings. But doing this in larger quantities will also register as a performance hit. And this is actually doable because it is far more rare than a sprite crossing a sector boundary.

Note that I didn't say it wasn't doable, but it's a lot more tricky to get the needed info to do it.

Re: QZDoom - ZDoom with True-Color (Version 1.2.2 released!)

PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 6:53 am
by RaVeN-05
Performance warning message when turning on this feature, default is off, i would like to use it only on original maps for single player.

Re: QZDoom - ZDoom with True-Color (Version 1.2.2 released!)

PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 7:15 am
by Gez
I believe there were per-sector split in one of the console ports of Hexen. At least I remember seeing a screenshot of an ettin crossing sector boundaries with light levels.

Re: QZDoom - ZDoom with True-Color (Version 1.2.2 released!)

PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 7:17 am
by RaVeN-05
in this thread mentioned above =) viewtopic.php?p=979567#p979567

Re: QZDoom - ZDoom with True-Color (Version 1.2.2 released!)

PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 8:27 am
by dpJudas
I don't really think it is worth the effort to split a sprite just add different colors when it is standing at a sector boundary. I'm not even sure it will look better as billboards rotate to always face the viewer.

Re: QZDoom - ZDoom with True-Color (Version 1.2.2 released!)

PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 12:39 pm
by MrDowntempo
dpJudas wrote:I don't really think it is worth the effort to split a sprite just add different colors when it is standing at a sector boundary. I'm not even sure it will look better as billboards rotate to always face the viewer.

Yeah, I can't imagine how odd that would look if you strafed around a sprite that was half-in a light sector and half-in a dark one.

Re: QZDoom - ZDoom with True-Color (Version 1.2.2 released!)

PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:06 am
by Nash
I just tried QZDoom's software render on my in-progress game for the first time. 2 questions:

1) Will it be possible to make the renderer replicate the visuals when using GZDoom's fog density features, and also the lighting curves from the various LightModes?
2) Alpha on true colour PNG sprites does not work, correct?

Other than that... looks very promising. My only dilemma right now and I'll have to make a decision about it - as it involves directly with the asset creation pipeline - is if I should forego models and instead use voxels for the level decorations. I'm worried if I go full voxels, then suddenly QZDoom's software renderer gets a MODELDEF drawer, then I'd have to undo all my voxel work... =D

Another concern with voxels is that voxels cannot be pitched and rolled and scaled, which I do use to make the static meshes have individual variations...

(Not to mention, learning the voxel creation pipeline is already very new ground for me, I don't quite have an idea right now where to begin. I most probably will just do modeling work in Blender then run the models through converters... hmm...)

Re: QZDoom - ZDoom with True-Color (Version 1.2.2 released!)

PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:12 am
by Graf Zahl
If you are basing your project on models instead of sprites, there's reall nothing the software render may give you. Its main attraction is to avoid the sprite clipping but with models that's a non-issue.

Re: QZDoom - ZDoom with True-Color (Version 1.2.2 released!)

PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:16 am
by Nash
That's the mentality I've set myself right from the start, except I'm thinking of my future users... because only the level decorations use models, the actors are all still Doom-like sprites.

So maybe they might go "wtf this game looks like Doom why do I need the latest OpenGL" and they'll expect to be able to play it using the software renderer with their old computers...

I guess I'll just have to hardlock the game's minimum requirements. >8D

Re: QZDoom - ZDoom with True-Color (Version 1.2.2 released!)

PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:32 am
by ZZYZX
Nash wrote:is if I should forego models and instead use voxels for the level decorations. I'm worried if I go full voxels

alternatively you could use poly2vox.