EDGE 2.1.0 Discussion [RC-1 Released on 10.3.2018]

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Re: 3DGE 1.37 (Discussion, 60FPS, etc)

Postby Snarboo » Tue Jun 03, 2014 7:43 pm

Mostly because people have different ideas about what Doom should be. :p
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Re: 3DGE 1.37 (Discussion, 60FPS, etc)

Postby Coraline » Wed Jun 04, 2014 1:03 am

ibm5155 wrote:it may sounds dumb, but I'm always curious about why people make alot of ports instead of everyone fix/make a single one (or two) :S
Well, MD5 models well be really welcome, even more from people that're converting md5 models to md3 D:

Just a matter of taste. It's less about "what Doom should be" more than it's "how Doom could be portrayed". Doom is always Doom, basically. Source ports offer different tastes, that's all.

MD5 is less expensive on the renderer than MD3 is with 3DGE - and I didn't think it would ever be practical to convert from MD5 to MD3..the model must be gigantic in size and without animations. In other words: not worth the conversion.
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Re: 3DGE 1.37 (Discussion, 60FPS, etc)

Postby ibm5155 » Wed Jun 04, 2014 5:49 pm

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Re: 3DGE 1.37 (Discussion, 60FPS, etc)

Postby Coraline » Wed Jun 04, 2014 7:46 pm

I mean no disrespect, but that's visually an ugly mod. Would serve Quake 3 better, but the execution is interesting regardless. Animating MD3 from MD5 would be absolute hell, but now it seems they backported MD5 to MD2, which of course saves animations in most post-90's model editors. Unless those models are using tags, which it doesn't appear that they are. Also, if those models are indeed MD3 like you state, then they must be huge as shit. A tiny loss of animation is worth keeping the size down.

Part of the advantage of the format with 3DGE is being able to use a shader language to back it up with. Those models look so flat and out of place without them, not to mention the cluster of content that's thrown at you. And I'm sure the converted model is bigger than the base MD5, even if by a few hundred kilobytes, it can add up with 40+ models in a mod.
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Re: 3DGE 1.37 (Discussion, 60FPS, etc)

Postby Nash » Wed Jun 04, 2014 8:13 pm

I also recently ran into the issue of MD3 model file size because the amount of data stored for vertex animation is just too big to be used in large scale production.

I'm curious, how would the scripting be like to bind the skeleton to the DOOM actor? Do you just map the animation frame of the skeleton to the DOOM state, just like MODELDEF? Also, are you able to "skin" any kind of mesh to the skeleton, meaning it's possible to use 1 skeleton to skin different character meshes?

I've never worked with the MD5 format before and I have no idea how it works, so sorry for the silly questions.
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Re: 3DGE 1.37 (Discussion, 60FPS, etc)

Postby Coraline » Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:11 pm

Most of that mapping is done via THINGS.DDF. The only thing 3DGE does not currently have is keyframe interpolation, but that will most likely come with the new format to reduce jerkiness when using animated model skins on models, like weapons and things.

I'm not sure I understand your second question - you can load up to 15 skins on one model and switch them out via Things.DDF in the animframes dynamically...also it wouldn't matter what mesh you'd have attached to the skeleton at a given time, either, though I haven't written that utility code yet. The shader language that is working is similar to Quake 3's TCMOD and can load via simple external script files to apply different effects. I modified that code from KMQuake 2, which I also occasionally work via a forked version. It looks like GZdoom has something like that though, but I could be wrong.

Another key thing is that, yes, MD3 are far too huge and not much of a jump other than vertex interpolation which isn't important for a DOOM mod, anyhow. MD5 isn't vertex-based so you can have a model with 100K of animations and keep the physical filesize low.
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Re: 3DGE 1.37 (Discussion, 60FPS, etc)

Postby Nash » Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:31 pm

Regarding the second question; you pretty much answered it, and upon Googling up about MD5, I've found out that you can indeed skin any mesh to a skeleton; although whether the deformations look good or not completely depends on what is being skinned to the skeleton and whether the vertex weights are compatible with the skeleton... so TLDR, it's possible to re-use 1 skeleton for all humanoid character meshes, for example.
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Re: 3DGE 1.37 (Discussion, 60FPS, etc)

Postby Coraline » Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:51 pm

Nash wrote:Regarding the second question; you pretty much answered it, and upon Googling up about MD5, I've found out that you can indeed skin any mesh to a skeleton; although whether the deformations look good or not completely depends on what is being skinned to the skeleton and whether the vertex weights are compatible with the skeleton... so TLDR, it's possible to re-use 1 skeleton for all humanoid character meshes, for example.

Cool, that's what I figured. ;)

I'm hoping that by this release it'll modernize the port enough for a bit of common usage. I can only dream of an ACS or DECORATE interpreter for 3DGE though. That'd be killer.
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Re: 3DGE 1.37 (Discussion, 60FPS, etc)

Postby VGA » Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:20 am

Why is this in Off Topic, I found it through google ...

I discovered this source port through Doom Forever, I have a couple of suggestions. Intro skipping option, disk icon disabling (I did it through the console, but other ppl may not have googled for the solution) and a smaller dot crosshair.

Thanks :-)
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Re: 3DGE 1.37 (Discussion, 60FPS, etc)

Postby Coraline » Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:36 am

Sure, I can add a simple switch to skip the 3DGE logo, a menu switch to disable the disk-loading icon, and crosshair scaling. That's no problem. :3

About the OffTopic, well, this isn't the 3DGE forums so it goes in Off-Topic. Though we also have a central forumboard for 3DGE (http://www.tdgmods.net/smf/viewforum.php?f=3) if you are interested in that.
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Re: 3DGE 1.37 (Discussion, 60FPS, etc)

Postby VGA » Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:12 am

Not another forum, I can't keep track :mrgreen:

Another thing: the TITLEPIC of "Doom the way iD did" isn't showing in 3DGE. Shouldn't it ?

In ZDoom it works and it also changes the console's background.
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Re: 3DGE 1.37 (Discussion, 60FPS, etc)

Postby Coraline » Wed Jun 25, 2014 12:12 pm

What port was that project developed for? BOOM-compatible? And if it's changing things in Zdoom it probably has pointers for that particular source port. Not every port uses the same console implementation, for instance.
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Re: 3DGE 1.37 (Discussion, 60FPS, etc)

Postby VGA » Wed Jun 25, 2014 12:27 pm

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Re: 3DGE 1.37 (Discussion, 60FPS, etc)

Postby Coraline » Wed Jun 25, 2014 12:53 pm

The TITLEPIC shows up just fine. The console graphic is a preference in 3DGE, and looks like Zdoom appends the TITLEPIC to the console. I can do the same thing in 3DGE, I just have it set up currently to display the port logo rather than TITLEPIC. Every port renders the console graphic differently, anyways.

It's a quick 1 second edit in DDF, but that's non-standard so I won't include that.
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Re: 3DGE 1.37 (Discussion, 60FPS, etc)

Postby VGA » Thu Jun 26, 2014 1:12 am

You're right, the TITLEPIC works fine, it doesn't when loading Doom Forever, that's why I was confused.
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