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Re: Official Oculus Rift GZ3Doom thread

PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:04 am
by Gez
PixelWAD wrote:I think you are making a big mistake by dismissing VR without even trying it.

What Graf said is pretty clear to me:
Graf Zahl wrote:3D movies make me dizzy because my vision is very uneven between both eyes.

Please make use of your week-long vacation to meditate upon this sentence until you reach the illumination that people don't like to do things that make them feel sick.

Re: Official Oculus Rift GZ3Doom thread

PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:27 am
by Rachael
You are right that no one likes to do things that make them sick but he only got banned for 6 hours. This is not the first time we've had to tell him to stop and he ignored us.

Ironically, and I doubt he will ever understand this, by doing that I helped him by preventing him from getting so out of hand with this that it would annoy developers so badly that they would remove what little support there is.

Re: Official Oculus Rift GZ3Doom thread

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:42 pm
by Naitguolf
Well VR is going to evolve. As now, it is just a little bit clumsy. But ey, remember the first cellular! Also, able to tweak the lenses per eye, so everyone could enjoy it. (The first VR experience is really amazing!). I dont think is something to be in the far future!

I am also very grateful for GZ3Doom, able to play DooM in VR was something I really wanted to do since 1994!

Re: Official Oculus Rift GZ3Doom thread

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:55 pm
by Graf Zahl
Naitguolf wrote: so everyone could enjoy it.


That's plain and simply impossible. Many people in the world have problems with their vision that prevents them from ever using such technology. And as long as it requires some sort of device to be put before the eyes it will be DOA.

3D in movie theaters only "works" because it is forced upon the customers (and made me completely abandon watching movies on the big screen.) But let's not forget that the TV manufacturers have mostly abandoned making 3D capable hardware, presumably because it doesn't sell well enough.
And on top of that VR is far, far worse when it comes to how it affects people than simple 3D glasses.

At the end of the day it is just faking 3D and the brain is not accustomed to that. Some people can tolerate it but many can not.

Re: Official Oculus Rift GZ3Doom thread

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 4:52 pm
by Naitguolf
Graf Zahl wrote:That's plain and simply impossible. Many people in the world have problems with their vision that prevents them from ever using such technology. And as long as it requires some sort of device to be put before the eyes it will be DOA..


But normal glasses is just that, a device before the eyes, that helps people to see better. So its easy to asume in the future, VR could also adapt to almost all eyes. Its nice as new research are being made to fight motion sickness and other issues. So any research I guess is something good!

But in my opiniun, the failure of 3d tv or 3d films its not because VR, nor because 3D, but because the content itself needs to be meanful in 3D (why X is made in 3D?). Also the problem of isolation when you are in VR. AR in other hand is more useful (I can see learning using AR is something I hope to see someday!), but at the moment is far far worse than VR. It needs to evolve a lot, and solve lots of problems: occlusion, transparency, etc, etc.

Anyway VR, in games, specially simulator games (really, playing Elite in VR with Hotas is just... not possible to explain how inmersive it is), is actually something really good!

Re: Official Oculus Rift GZ3Doom thread

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 12:07 am
by Rachael
Naitguolf - keep in mind VR simply is not for everybody. For every point you put forth about how great it is and how great it will be, it only takes a few static points to bring it down. You are trying way too hard to convince us of something that's easily struck down by three things: Sickness, expense, and lack of desire. YOU have overcome these things, but don't think for a second that everyone else has or even wants to!

I'll tell you what I told PixelWAD - calm down. It is possible to be so overly enthusiastic about it that you make everyone around you sick of hearing it. If you want GZDoom to have VR in the future, let it happen naturally - and it will, eventually - don't try to force it - because it may backfire, as it often has when people have pushed so hard for other features.

Re: Official Oculus Rift GZ3Doom thread

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 12:29 am
by Enjay
Naitguolf wrote:But normal glasses is just that, a device before the eyes, that helps people to see better. So its easy to asume in the future, VR could also adapt to almost all eyes. Its nice as new research are being made to fight motion sickness and other issues. So any research I guess is something good!!

Easy to assume, but not necessarily correct to do so. VR forces the eyes to do things they don't normally do (mostly diverging unnaturally). That can cause eye pain, headaches and nausea. This has been a problem from the earliest days of these kind of 3D gimmicks (way before computers). Also, for many people with quite common eye defects, the 3D effect simply doesn't work.

Re: Official Oculus Rift GZ3Doom thread

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:21 am
by Naitguolf
Rachael wrote:Naitguolf - keep in mind VR simply is not for everybody. For every point you put forth about how great it is and how great it will be, it only takes a few static points to bring it down. You are trying way too hard to convince us of something that's easily struck down by three things: Sickness, expense, and lack of desire. YOU have overcome these things, but don't think for a second that everyone else has or even wants to!

I'll tell you what I told PixelWAD - calm down. It is possible to be so overly enthusiastic about it that you make everyone around you sick of hearing it. If you want GZDoom to have VR in the future, let it happen naturally - and it will, eventually - don't try to force it - because it may backfire, as it often has when people have pushed so hard for other features.


Not really, nor my intention to convince or force nothing. Far for my intention!. Just speaking for the technology and from my experience, not only as user, but as a developer, and also what I saw from my clients, and what I can see what might happen. I feel some hostility on this topic, but dont worry I will not say anything more about it.

Cheers.

Re: Official Oculus Rift GZ3Doom thread

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:09 am
by Rachael
If you are a developer and you want VR GZDoom, the logical thing to do would be instead of arguing your point on a forum, try and revive the project and help biospud and fix any problems that he may be having.

Re: Official Oculus Rift GZ3Doom thread

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:15 am
by Graf Zahl
Naitguolf wrote:But in my opiniun, the failure of 3d tv or 3d films its not because VR, nor because 3D, but because the content itself needs to be meanful in 3D (why X is made in 3D?).



No. The main reason of failure is that this stuff is just painful for some people and inconvenient for others (due to the special glasses they have to wear.) That by default makes it incompatible with the needs of a consumer product.

Re: Official Oculus Rift GZ3Doom thread

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:42 am
by PixelWAD
I spoke with a developer potentially interested in porting Doom to VR. The biggest obstacle (for him) is that Doom uses GLES1, while Oculus SDK requires GLES2.
The only GLES2 Doom port I'm aware of is the Android version of Doom GLES, but for some reason the source code is not available for it publicly.

Kokak does support Doom VR but in form of retro styled Cardboard - it does render in VR, but it's very bad implementation. It should be based on Oculus SDK to take advantage of all the low-level optimizations.

Re: Official Oculus Rift GZ3Doom thread

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:46 am
by Gez
PixelWAD wrote:The biggest obstacle (for him) is that Doom uses GLES1

Just what Doom is he talking about here?

Re: Official Oculus Rift GZ3Doom thread

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:51 am
by PixelWAD
Delta Touch it seems.

The developer I'm in contact with already made a VR version, but it's really barebones.

GitHub - DrBeef/DoomGVR: Doom for Gear VR
https://github.com › DrBeef › DoomGVR

Re: Official Oculus Rift GZ3Doom thread

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:46 am
by Rachael
Coding for GLES1 and using it on hardware that supports GLES2 should not be a blocking factor. That's insanity!

It sounds like it's the other way around - and if that's the case... they really need to get up to date with that because GLES is at 3 already, from last I heard.

Re: Official Oculus Rift GZ3Doom thread

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:36 am
by Graf Zahl
Actually, GLES1 and GLES2 are very incompatible. It is easily possible that some hardware does not implement the older API.
However - what hardware are we talking about here? Does anyone have a link to its specs?