Maps that need compatibility settings.

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Enjay
 
 
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Re: Maps that need compatibility settings.

Post by Enjay »

I've given it a bit of thought. Obviously I could go in and do a node build. It would be fairly trivial to do so.

However, those files have been on idgames (and in the wild elsewhere too) for a very long time now. I suspect that very few people would actively seek out updated versions - especially if the updates were effectively invisible to many users. i.e. I think it might just cause a versioning issue where people might not be sure which version they had and, not that the files are a hot topic anywhere, but discussions about them could get confused.

So, I think, in this case, compat settings in GZDoom might be the way forward.


For what its worth, I did go in to the maps and have a quick look. I didn't spot any of the problems mentioned but I'm not saying that they didn't occur, merely that I didn't see them happening. (Personal setups could be different in some critical way.)

Map E3M4/MAP23 certainly looked fine to me (no flickering cacodemons).

E1M6/MAP13 also looked fine but that one doesn't surprise me. When making the map, the question I had in my head was "I wonder how long I can make a corridor in Doom". I did it and at the time (1994!) it seemed to work. However, problems have cropped up with it over the years (mostly enemies disappearing due to a limit that I forget the details of) and the old nodebuilders were known to be buggy too - and that certainly gave me headaches in many maps that should have been OK but the node build put invisible barriers in places that you had to meticulously crawl around the whole map to find just in case one had appeared during the nodebuild. In hindsight, I suppose I answered my question: shorter than the corridor I ended up making. At least as a single sector. It would be easy enough to divide it up into smaller sectors and also do something about the long view but that wasn't the point and at the time I just kept extending the corridor testing it and thinking "still working" until eventually I decided it was long enough (or I was bored) and I stopped.

Interestingly, I also noticed messages like this on some of the maps:

Code: Select all

E1M6 - Central Processing

Sector 45 (tag 3) has no lines
Sector 68 (tag 3) has no lines
Sector 74 (tag 3) has no lines
Sector 91 (tag 3) has no lines
Sector 136 (tag 3) has no lines
Sector 155 (tag 3) has no lines
Sector 173 (tag 3) has no lines
Sector 248 (tag 24) has no lines
Sector 249 (tag 24) has no lines
Sector 250 (tag 24) has no lines
Sector 251 (tag 24) has no lines
Sector 252 (tag 24) has no lines
Sector 253 (tag 24) has no lines
Sector 254 (tag 24) has no lines
Sector 255 (tag 24) has no lines
Sector 256 (tag 24) has no lines
Again, these were not particularly apparent when the maps were made and no tools at the time had the robust error checking of modern mapping programs so I was completely unaware of them.

But, TL:DR version - if it's not too much bother, and it does indeed fix the issues, then I think adding the maps to GZDoom's auto-fixing might be the way forward.

As an aside, brick, have you actually tried forcing GZDoom to build the nodes to see if it fixes the problem for you? If not, try typing gennodes 1 at the console and restarting your game to see if it helps. I'd do it myself but, like I said, I didn't see the problems.
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Rachael
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Re: Maps that need compatibility settings.

Post by Rachael »

Done, then.
brick
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Re: Maps that need compatibility settings.

Post by brick »

Thanks for the detailed response Enjay. I completely understand not wanting to update the wad for all the reasons you listed, and also because it will completely mess up existing demos. I had forgotten about gennodes, thank you for reminding me. I did some testing on both E1M6 and E3M4 and in both cases the problems went away completely when I started the maps with this set to True, so it definitely fixes the problem. I'm not sure if there's something different in our configurations (are you using Hardware rendering? or could it be you had gennodes on by default?). I've included a few screenshots just to give you an idea of what it looks like. A funny one too; that shot of E3M4 where you see no enemies? both cacos are in fact in front of me, both invisible due to the faulty nodes XD

Very interesting to read your thought process when building the long corridor in E1M6, thank you for sharing it!

@Rachael thank you for the fixes. I think there might be faulty nodes in other maps in the wad, I remember someone on Doomworld mentioning another map. I'll post more if I find them if that's desirable, but maybe the general advice for someone playing the wads would just be to have gennodes on.
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lulle
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Re: Maps that need compatibility settings.

Post by lulle »

Hi!
Doom2 Map01 : 3c9902e376cca1e9c3be8763bdc21df5 : Missing textures: (outside area@p1 start)
TextureId fixtex = TexMan.CheckForTexture("BROWNGRN", TexMan.Type_Any);
level.lines[335].sidedef[MD_SIDE_BACK].SetTexture(2, fixtex);
level.lines[334].sidedef[MD_SIDE_BACK].SetTexture(2, fixtex);
level.lines[369].sidedef[MD_SIDE_BACK].SetTexture(2, fixtex);
You will never notice that without cheating, but missing is missing.

TNT01 : 8391b0eb996c55b5ed4343d18b8ad2c8
LindeDef 182,208 should be impassable; you can get to the secret area just by jumping. I think they simply forgot that, the lines in the tower are impassable but maybe it is intended to be open for DM rocketjumping idk.
I dont know if it makes sense to fix "jumping breaks level" bugs, because jumping wasnt a feature in 1993 and starting to fix this things will pply end up in an endless story...
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Graf Zahl
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Re: Maps that need compatibility settings.

Post by Graf Zahl »

lulle wrote:Hi!
Doom2 Map01 : 3c9902e376cca1e9c3be8763bdc21df5 : Missing textures: (outside area@p1 start)
TextureId fixtex = TexMan.CheckForTexture("BROWNGRN", TexMan.Type_Any);
level.lines[335].sidedef[MD_SIDE_BACK].SetTexture(2, fixtex);
level.lines[334].sidedef[MD_SIDE_BACK].SetTexture(2, fixtex);
level.lines[369].sidedef[MD_SIDE_BACK].SetTexture(2, fixtex);
You will never notice that without cheating, but missing is missing.
We won't add a fix for that. It's really not worth bloating the handler for such things.
lulle wrote: TNT01 : 8391b0eb996c55b5ed4343d18b8ad2c8
LindeDef 182,208 should be impassable; you can get to the secret area just by jumping. I think they simply forgot that, the lines in the tower are impassable but maybe it is intended to be open for DM rocketjumping idk.
I dont know if it makes sense to fix "jumping breaks level" bugs, because jumping wasnt a feature in 1993 and starting to fix this things will pply end up in an endless story...
We also won't address anything where jumping breaks progression of maps not made for jumping. But we also won't add a jump block for them because some people would not like that.
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lulle
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Re: Maps that need compatibility settings.

Post by lulle »

I see.
Is there an unofficial project for that kind of micro patches?
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Caligari87
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Re: Maps that need compatibility settings.

Post by Caligari87 »

Not that I'm aware of, but it wouldn't be too difficult to set up a sort of "community map compat fixes" repo for people to contribute to. If there's enough interest I'd be willing to do that.

8-)
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Rachael
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Re: Maps that need compatibility settings.

Post by Rachael »

Let's do it under an official name, I'll invite you as admin.
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lulle
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Re: Maps that need compatibility settings.

Post by lulle »

Caligari87 wrote:Not that I'm aware of, but it wouldn't be too difficult to set up a sort of "community map compat fixes" repo for people to contribute to. If there's enough interest I'd be willing to do that.

8-)
That was the background of my question. You were faster :D
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InsanityBringer
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Re: Maps that need compatibility settings.

Post by InsanityBringer »

MAP01 of Torment And Torture episode 2 needs rebuilt nodes, there is janky collision around -136, -644 which vanishes with gennodes on.

Code: Select all

5366DD3789F5B6E3CA455B949455F458 // tnt2fix2.wad map01
May be slightly moot since there's the enhanced remake of the level available, though.

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