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Re: Maps that need compatibility settings.

PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 2:31 pm
by drfrag
GFD wrote:I actually prefer the design where the shotgunner is stuck in the barrel, because it can work as a tutorial.

But Doom actually came out before Doom II and there were a lot of barrels in e1m2. Also it was pretty easy to blow the guy off in the initial version, not the first time i played the level of course. I don't know if not fixing the bug was intentional or not (probably not as this is sloppy) nor who made the changes. I don't really care about this anyway.

Re: Maps that need compatibility settings.

PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:19 pm
by Rachael


Doom 2 - v1.666

As you can see, the shotgunner is very much not stuck. It was obviously accidental.

I am not trying to make the case that it should be changed - I am just saying whatever they did to change the map, they screwed things up.

IMO, v1.666's version of MAP02 is the superior version of the map anyhow, but that's just my opinion.

Re: Maps that need compatibility settings.

PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:23 pm
by dpJudas
Everyone knows 1.666 is the real version - if nothing else because it was the version 95% of everyone back then played! On the other hand, one could make the argument that id fucking up the shotgunner is part of the history of Doom.. :)

Re: Maps that need compatibility settings.

PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:24 pm
by Graf Zahl
Rachael wrote:IMO, v1.666's version of MAP02 is the superior version of the map anyhow, but that's just my opinion.


Agreed. And it's the one I use for playing so I rarely see the stuck shotgunner.

Re: Maps that need compatibility settings.

PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:44 pm
by Rachael
Well - while we're on that subject, then, with 3 of us affirming that we like 1.666's MAP02 better at any rate - both Doom 1 and 2 version 1.666 IWADs contain all the required resources to be fully compatible with GZDoom and, obviously, future versions of the Doom2.exe executable (other than the demos being marked differently, but a simple byte change hack fixes that for all of id's own demos at least without sync issues).

Would there be any interest in doing at least the cosmetic compatibility fixes for the v1.666 IWADs, or would that be taking things too far?

Re: Maps that need compatibility settings.

PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:48 pm
by Graf Zahl
I didn't say I use the 1.666 IWAD. What I use is a map WAD where I fixed many of the issues which the compatibility patch later got, too.

Re: Maps that need compatibility settings.

PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:52 pm
by Rachael
I realize that, and I was not trying to imply that you used the IWAD itself, I was just pointing that out for the map. But indeed, my question was about possibly fixing the entire IWAD.

Re: Maps that need compatibility settings.

PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:57 pm
by Enjay
In 1.666's MAP02, this bad boy isn't in the wall either.


And this was much better

(but apparently it confused people who didn't think to try [use]ing the bars to open them.

Interestingly, going back to my comment about map01 and the bad guys on the platform being offset weirdly
Reminder about 1.9
Image

They are actually offset in 1.666, but the other way!
Image
Apparently it's really hard to put things in the middle of the room in id's map editor.

But then all the things are messed up. Look at the player starts.

Re: Maps that need compatibility settings.

PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:20 pm
by Graf Zahl
That thing displacement was caused by the node builder, not the editor. It aligned every thing to an 8x8 grid. I found that out the hard way when running a few maps through it back in 1995. Many got trashed beyond repair by that so I had to go back to the original.

Re: Maps that need compatibility settings.

PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:34 pm
by Enjay
I didn't realise that. That would explain why so many things shifted around after the map realignments in the various updates. I just assumed that the map architecture and the things were being moved separately (and badly) when the maps were being altered. Thanks for the info.

Re: Maps that need compatibility settings.

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 8:18 pm
by Get Phobo
Graf Zahl wrote:That thing displacement was caused by the node builder, not the editor. It aligned every thing to an 8x8 grid. I found that out the hard way when running a few maps through it back in 1995. Many got trashed beyond repair by that so I had to go back to the original.
Would vanilla Doom run into problems when stuff is not aligned on an 8-unit grid, or is that just a bug/feature of the node builder that doesn't serve any specific purpose?

Re: Maps that need compatibility settings.

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:36 pm
by Gez
It might have been an attempt at reducing slime trails, by making distances between two points on the grid easier to split -- at least when they're aligned on an axis. But no, it doesn't serve an actual purpose; the game engine happily accepts maps that don't follow that rule.

Re: Maps that need compatibility settings.

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 10:58 am
by De-M-oN
The 2nd image of enjay is indeed better. Makes more sense.

But its very interesting. I didnt remember all these changes, but now where you show me it, I remember the bars also on the left side.

Interesting :)


But I also wondered about some secrets not being secrets, while some other are so easy and actually are secrets.

for example in MAP29 the teleporter which leads to the cellpacks where the pain elementals were in. How in the world is that NOT a secret?
__

I saw that GZDoom has fixed doom 1 like episode 4 secret in a torch etc removed.

But what is about Doom 2 MAP15? The teleporter with the unreachable secret is still there. Shouldnt it be fixed as well?

Re: Maps that need compatibility settings.

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 6:56 pm
by GuyNamedErick
De-M-oN wrote:But what is about Doom 2 MAP15? The teleporter with the unreachable secret is still there. Shouldnt it be fixed as well?

It actually is fixed, the sector has its secret effect removed.

https://github.com/coelckers/gzdoom/blob/42b9a41421f2141c4d01eab48adc9e93834f1638/wadsrc/static/zscript/level_compatibility.txt#L613

Something to bring up, but what version of HACX.WAD was the MAP05 fix applied to? Playing the V1.2 IWAD has this when using the OpenGL renderer, unless there's some version or other WAD I don't know about. :?

Re: Maps that need compatibility settings.

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:00 pm
by De-M-oN
It actually is fixed, the sector has its secret effect removed.


Maybe I shouldnt forget that I have to play Samsara with Zandronum. My bad :P

Single Player my brain = GZDoom, but in case of Samsara being only compatible with Zandronum I mixed them up. Sorry my bad.